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Bryan S
03-08-2008, 10:33 PM
This is for my NY style pies.
Here's my recipe for 2 - 20 oz balls for 2 - 16" pies or 4 10 oz balls for 4 - 12" pies.

Ceresota AP Flour (100%) 24.56 oz
Water (62%) 15.22 oz
IDY (0.33%) 0.76 tsp.
Salt (2%) 2.5 tsp.

For the AP flour look for Heckers/Ceresota, Robin Hood, or King Arthur AP flour. I use a Kitchenaid Pro 600 stand mixer for my pizza dough, here's the process.
Put the water in the bowl and add the salt, strir to dissolve. Add the yeast and the sifted flour and mix with the spiral dough hook on speed 2 just till it comes together, less than 2 min. I then let it sit for 15 min and then add oil (if using it) do a final knead on speed 2 for 4-5 min. I then weigh out the dough balls to 20 oz hand knead in to a smooth ball, oil and place in a gladeware round container and in to the beer fridge (34-36 degrees) it goes for the cold ferment. I get very little rise in the fridge with my dough. Let it cold ferment in the back of the fridge for 5-14 days. I cook on a pizza screen at 550 degrees (15 min preheat) on the middle rack for 8-9 minutes. I rotate the pie 180 after 5 1/2 min. Then just eyeball it for done. I go by color, I hate under cooked pizza's. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
EDIT: If you want to go long on the cold ferment, 8-14 days cut the IDY yeast back to 1/2 tsp. With the AP flour and no oil this makes a nice chewy crust. You can add oil if you want just remove a TBS of water and replace with regular Olive oil, not extra virgin. I use Regular Bertolli Classico 100% Pure Olive Oil gold & red label, bought at BJ's for a good price. It's like $25.00 for a 5 liter jug. This is really good olive oil. For extra virgin I use Morea. But I don't use that in my pizza dough.

Paul H
03-09-2008, 05:18 AM
Bryan, my first dough came out so so. Will try your recipe next time. For some reason the crust in the middle wouldn't slice with a pizza cutter. Had to go over it a number of times and finally a knife http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Gary Bramley
03-09-2008, 05:50 AM
Here is the recipe I have been using with good success for NY style pizza. It makes two sixteen inch pizza skins.


Flour (100%): 707.03 g | 24.94 oz (high protein flour)
Water (63%): 445.43 g | 15.71 oz
IDY (.4%): 2.83 g | 0.1 oz
Salt (2%): 14.14 g | 0.5 oz
Oil (2%): 14.14 g | 0.5 oz
Sugar (2%): 14.14 g | 0.5 oz
Total (169.4%):

Q'n, Golf'n & Grill'n....too many choices!
Gary

r benash
03-09-2008, 11:43 AM
Hey Bryan - just on the screen, no stone?

Bryan S
03-09-2008, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by r benash:
Hey Bryan - just on the screen, no stone?
Ray, Just the screen. I have a Fibrament stone but the whole preheat for a hr or more is just a waste IMO. I get fantastic results with just the screen.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/947456/BCIWF-8dayDough002.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/947456/VWCCY-8dayDough001.jpg

Gary Bramley
03-09-2008, 03:01 PM
Bryan,

Was that pizza as good as it looks?

Q'n, Golf'n & Grill'n....too many choices!
Gary

Bryan S
03-09-2008, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Gary Bramley:
Bryan,
Was that pizza as good as it looks?

Gary, I think it was. I've been using the recipe posted above for awhile now. I have tried oil and sugar but find I like to leave the oil out for a chewy crust. Oil makes the finished dough softer but I like mine more on the chewy side. One could add a TBS or 2 of oil to the above recipe if they wanted, no worries. Just take out a TBS of water. IMO there's no need for sugar in a long cold ferment dough (5-14 days), kind of defeats the purpose in my book. So after many trials with Bread flour and AP flour, with oil, and without, and with sugar, and without, I always come back to this Ceresota AP flour one for my NY style pies. It's my favorite. I haven't bought a pizza out in over 2 years. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Paul H
03-16-2008, 05:30 AM
Bryan or Gary, Can you freeze the doughs after the ferment period is up??? Bryan, if you added a little more yeast like Gary can you cut down the cold ferment time? Made some pizza this weekend. My wife made the dough. Skin tore easily and center of pizza was almost non existent. When I stretched the dough I could almost see through the center.

Jim Babek
03-16-2008, 02:07 PM
a great site for any and all of your pizza making need and / or questions is pizzamaking.com

Kinda like here with the nice, helpful folks but about pizza.

Bryan S
03-16-2008, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by paul h:
Bryan or Gary, Can you freeze the doughs after the ferment period is up??? Bryan, if you added a little more yeast like Gary can you cut down the cold ferment time? Made some pizza this weekend. My wife made the dough. Skin tore easily and center of pizza was almost non existent. When I stretched the dough I could almost see through the center.
I don't freeze. Over on the Pizza forum it's hit or miss. Some say yes it works fine while others say no. With what you are decribing about the dough, are you sure she put the salt in? If not it will tear very easy. How did you knead it, and for how long? Also was the dough cold or room temp. I hate working with room temp dough, like liquid dough. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif I use mine straight from the fridge. That dough recipe above is very durable, something was a skew with your dough. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Jim Babek
03-16-2008, 04:37 PM
In my opinion if you plan on freezing dough I would say mix it up, spray the inside of a ziplock bag and put the dough ball in and freeze before ferment. Take it out and then ferment.

If youre not getting the elasticity from the dough that you want then I would get some vital wheat gluten, you can get it at health food stores or in some supermarkets. There is a calculator in the link of my previous post. It does make a difference. With dough protein content makes all the difference.

Dough tearing could mean over fermentation or not enough protein, or that the dough is too warm.

Seriously, at that site, post your recipe and ask questions. They are great there. Chances are a guy named "Petezza" will answer...he's pretty much the guru and the nicest person you will find.

Gary Bramley
03-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Paul,

What was the consistency of the dough?

When I first started making pizza dough my results were all over the map. The biggest help to me was getting the ratios of flour to water accurate. When the moisture was too high the dough was difficult to work with. IF I could get the dough on to a pizza screen there would be thin spots, tears, the center strethed to nonexistents, and sometimes not even possible to work with. The hydration was around 65% maybe more, backing off to 63% helped a lot.

Figuring out how much to knead help as well. I will use the mixer until all the flour is well incorporated. The dough will still be a little tacky and I will finish off by hand. The dough will come to a point that it stretches over itself and the outer skin of the dough ball will be very smooth. When I hit that spot it goes into the fridge.

I backed off the yeast just a bit for the latest pizzas, in the fridge for three day and they came out very good.

Good luck with your next try.

Q'n, Golf'n & Grill'n.... too many choices!
Gary

Paul H
03-17-2008, 02:01 AM
Thanks for the advice guys. I didn't see her make the dough and yes, the dough had been sitting out at least a couple of hours before I put it on the screen.

Paul K
03-17-2008, 05:21 AM
Bryan,


Let it cold ferment in the back of the fridge for 5-14 days.

What does the cold ferment do compared to a normal proof, add flavor? I've been experimenting the last few months with different doughs but haven't tried a cold ferment yet.

Bryan S
03-17-2008, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Paul K:
Bryan,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Let it cold ferment in the back of the fridge for 5-14 days.

What does the cold ferment do compared to a normal proof, add flavor? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Paul, Yes it adds a ton of flavor to the dough. When you cold ferment the pizza dough it takes away that floury taste you can get in a normal proof dough. I've done normal proofs when I have to but I'm always dissatisfied with the flavor or lack there of in the dough. Think of it as Lagering your dough. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Paul K
03-17-2008, 11:09 AM
Excellent! I'll give that a try this week. I too went to screens; just got tired of messing with my tiles (too cheap to buy a real stone).

Steve Petrone
03-17-2008, 01:31 PM
Paul, the one recommendation that P. Reinhart makes that he says will improve any pizza dough is to delay or retard fermentation by storing overnight in the frig and baking on day two. Short of that start the dough early in the am and go to frig for a few hours.

I have not tried the more extended fermentation that many seem to prefer. Most of my dough is used in 3 or 4 days. It does obviously work for many to go longer.

I like using a stone.

Bryan S
03-17-2008, 08:06 PM
Steve, I have American Pie and while it's a good read............... It's not written in stone. Yes Peter is a Godsend for the Home pizza maker, but.............. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I like to make things my own. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Just because Peter likes it doesn't mean I'm going to like it. And just because I like it doesn't mean you're going to like it. Make it the way YOU want it and all is right in the world. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Steve Petrone
03-18-2008, 02:27 AM
Bryan, I agree with your comments. I also defer, to those with more experience, such as you.

For someone who has not tried a retarded fermentation, I thought it would be helpful to acknowledge that the benefits will begin to show up in an overnight. I do like your passion for pizza, keep it up.

Bryan S
03-19-2008, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
Bryan, I agree with your comments. I also defer, to those with more experience, such as you.

For someone who has not tried a retarded fermentation, I thought it would be helpful to acknowledge that the benefits will begin to show up in an overnight. I do like your passion for pizza, keep it up.
Steve, I do have a passion for good pizza. My post about Peter might have come across the wrong way, if it did I'm sorry. He is the man when it comes pizza. I know very little compared to him. But through my trials of homemade pizza, and having worked in a very good pizza shop many, many years ago, I have found that 2-3 days is just not enough for my tastes, (we did 7 days min at the shop). Yes it's good at 2-3 days, but if you extend that fermentation, you'll get some killer flavor in your dough. Will you like it, not sure. I know I do but that doesn't mean everybody will, or you will. What I'm trying to say is, give it a try and see if it's your cup of tea. Pizza is as varried as BBQ sauce. What one likes the other doesn't. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

r benash
03-20-2008, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r benash:
Hey Bryan - just on the screen, no stone?
Ray, Just the screen. I have a Fibrament stone but the whole preheat for a hr or more is just a waste IMO. I get fantastic results with just the screen.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Bryan - very interesting. Been reading up on the topic, and used to always use a stone when I was on this kick years ago. But I never used a screen then, nor was I using the "right" flour as it turns out nor proofing for as long as I should have. Going to give another try.

Steve Petrone
03-21-2008, 10:23 AM
Bryan, you have encouraged me to do further study...I was up at 5.30 this morning and doing some pizza research. It has lead me to ask two questions.

#1 Do you bench ferment before going in the fridge?

#2 Do you allow the dough to come to room temp or just go from fridge to the oven?

Bryan S
03-21-2008, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
Bryan, you have encouraged me to do further study...I was up at 5.30 this morning and doing some pizza research. It has lead me to ask two questions.

#1 Do you bench ferment before going in the fridge?

#2 Do you allow the dough to come to room temp or just go from fridge to the oven?
Steve, After the final kneed with the KA mixer I split the dough into 2-20 oz balls and they get a light coat of Olive oil and into the Gladware containers, and staright in the fridge they go. I do not stack them because I want them to cool down fast. I also leave the lid open about a 1/4" for 3-4 hrs to help let the warm air out and reduce condensation buildup in the container. You can also place a paper towel acroos the top of the container when you close the lids tight (not touching the dough) after the 3-4 hrs with the lid ajar and cooling in the fridge. This will collect any moisture that forms on the underside of the lid and keep it from pooling on your dough.
When I worked in a Pizza shop many years ago we used the dough straight from the fridge, so I find that easier to work with. I did try using the dough once after letting it sit out for 2-3 hrs and found it very runny. Yes it's easier to stretch but it's too easy, and hard to control IMO. If you find cold dough not easy to work with then maybe try 45- min to a hr out of the fridge before stretching. I find the 2-3 hrs way too long. Not to mention it rises a great deal which makes it hard to work with also.
If you want to do a 5-7 day dough use the 3/4 tsp of IDY. If you want to go to the 10-14 day route cut the IDY to 1/2 tsp.
Rember cold air falls, so the bottom shelf, very back of fridge for the long ferment dough. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Paul K
03-24-2008, 07:16 AM
I made 2 batches of dough this past Fri; 1 was consumed that night (hey I couldn't wait!), and the other is in the fridge. Really looking forward to this weekend to try out the cold fermented dough.

David Lohrentz
03-24-2008, 12:17 PM
Bryan,

Did you ever try making this with cold water, essentially with Reinhart's pain a l'ancienne (sp?) technique? I like the flavor I get from that technique.

That would also take care of the condensation issue as the dough cools off in the frig.

Bryan S
03-24-2008, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
Bryan,

Did you ever try making this with cold water, essentially with Reinhart's pain a l'ancienne (sp?) technique? I like the flavor I get from that technique.

That would also take care of the condensation issue as the dough cools off in the frig.
David, I did use cold water once or twice but I found no difference. Even with the cold water with all the mixing and such the dough is over 60 degrees when finished. Plus I do the 15-20 min rest then the final knead so... It gets warm. The fridge issue, here's my take on it. Anything that's warmer than the fridge in a bowl closed up tight with a lid is going to build up condensation, unless the warmer air can escape. JMO

David Lohrentz
03-25-2008, 04:55 AM
What I do with that method, is chill water, sponge, etc before mixing, mix all ingredients except the salt, knead for a minute or so, then stash in the frig for about 30 minutes, then add salt and knead for another minute or so, then back in the frig. Depending on the hydration, then after another 30 minutes in the frig, pull back out and knead for another 30 seconds or so. Then proceed with retardation.

Bryan S
03-26-2008, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Paul K: and the other is in the fridge. Really looking forward to this weekend to try out the cold fermented dough.
Paul, Looking forward to your thoughts on the dough as well. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bryan S
03-26-2008, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
What I do with that method, is chill water, sponge, etc before mixing, mix all ingredients except the salt, knead for a minute or so, then stash in the frig for about 30 minutes, then add salt and knead for another minute or so, then back in the frig. Depending on the hydration, then after another 30 minutes in the frig, pull back out and knead for another 30 seconds or so. Then proceed with retardation.
David, That's alot of time. If I was up to getting that involved, I would try it, but..... These days things are tough for me, so I try to keep it simple. Believe me It's not by choice, but I have had to redo/rethink almost everyting the past couple of years. I'm sure my method is no where near what Tom's is, but it's the best I can do right now. I would really like it if you could try my pizza dough as written in my first post, give it 8-10 days in the fridge and see what you think. I know it's no Lehman or Reinhart dough, but it's not half bad. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

David Lohrentz
03-27-2008, 06:17 AM
Bryan,

I here you on the simplicity factor. There's a lot to be said for that.

I'll try it as is with the long fermentation.

Quick question on the salt. Is that a fine grain salt or a flaky salt like kosher?

Bryan S
03-27-2008, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
Bryan,
Quick question on the salt. Is that a fine grain salt or a flaky salt like kosher?
It's more of a fine grain, Sea Salt.

Paul K
03-31-2008, 05:19 AM
Paul, Yes it adds a ton of flavor to the dough. When you cold ferment the pizza dough it takes away that floury taste you can get in a normal proof dough.

Bryan, the dough turned out great. I let it proof for 7 days. This was probably the best pizza I've made. Now, what I'm doing, as I pull out cold fermented dough, I make up another batch to have on hand. Thanks for the tip.

Bryan S
03-31-2008, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Paul K:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Paul, Yes it adds a ton of flavor to the dough. When you cold ferment the pizza dough it takes away that floury taste you can get in a normal proof dough.

Bryan, the dough turned out great. I let it proof for 7 days. This was probably the best pizza I've made. Now, what I'm doing, as I pull out cold fermented dough, I make up another batch to have on hand. Thanks for the tip. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Paul, Glad it turned out ok and you liked it. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Your method of making one after using up the dough is one I used to use also. I liked having pizza at least once a week so when I used the first dough ball up at day 5,6,7 I'd make up another batch. I make 40 oz at once for 2 dough balls and would always have dough on hand for pies. I haven't made pizza in months, but hope to be able to get back into doing it again soon. Now try a 11 day dough for a pizza and see what you think. That one is my favorite. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Paul K
04-03-2008, 10:04 AM
Now try a 11 day dough for a pizza and see what you think. That one is my favorite. Wink
Made a quickie last night with some 11 day old. The dough had the yeasty/fermented odor to it. I think I left it in a day or 2 too long. I made up the pizza anyway and it was good, but not as good as the last one. One of the problems was probably using too much yeast (1 packet) to begin with. I've since read about cutting back for the longer cold ferments. Has anyone had any luck with freezing their dough? I'm thinking if I can't use it by the time I should, then possibly pop it in the freezer to stop the fermentation...?

Wayne Sizemore
04-04-2008, 05:04 PM
In the midst of making this dough as I type. I hope to be having the best pizza I've ever made next weekend. Thanks Bryan for posting this recipe/method. Can't wait to try the results.

Rick Pruitt
04-05-2008, 06:26 AM
Could this be used in a pan style pizza?


Rick

David Lohrentz
04-05-2008, 07:52 AM
Brian,

I made this and it was very good. I'd like to keep making this. Here is my only problem. I like my pizza very thin, so for me this requires four small balls. We only have one frig, and I often have some other bread dough fermenting in the frig. I don't think I can get away with that much frig space devoted to my doughs. I think I could save space by bulk fermenting and then divide and shape when I make it. How important is it to the process that it ferment in individual balls?

Bryan S
04-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Rick Pruitt:
Could this be used in a pan style pizza?
Rick

Yes Rick it can be used for pan pizza with some mods done to it. I need to know the size and style of the pan. I use a round 15" with tapered sides. Meaning the inside of the pan measures 14" at the bottom and tapers out to 15" at the top. For this size and style pan 22 oz of dough is needed.



Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
Brian,

I made this and it was very good. I'd like to keep making this. Here is my only problem. I like my pizza very thin, so for me this requires four small balls. We only have one frig, and I often have some other bread dough fermenting in the frig. I don't think I can get away with that much frig space devoted to my doughs. I think I could save space by bulk fermenting and then divide and shape when I make it. How important is it to the process that it ferment in individual balls?

David, Glad to hear you liked it. Yes you can leave it as one big ball and divide the day/night before making pizza. Make your 4 balls and let rest overnight to relax the gluten. I've found that the overnight rest is better than divding the same day your using.

Paul H
04-07-2008, 02:06 AM
Bryan, made your cold ferment dough last night. The only problem I had was mine. I read the amount of flour wrong the first time and had to throw the batch out. Second time came out just right. Taste test this Friday. Can I freeze the second dough ball after say 7 days?

Bryan S
04-07-2008, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by paul h:
Can I freeze the second dough ball after say 7 days?
I never tried freezing dough, not sure how it will act/turn out?

David Lohrentz
04-07-2008, 02:44 PM
I have frozen cinnamon bun dough and it works perfectly fine, but I put about 17% butter/lard in that dough (as percent of flour weight), which may help with the freezing.

I would guess that it would work fine. Just give it a couple of days to thaw in the frig.

Bryan S
04-07-2008, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
I have frozen cinnamon bun dough and it works perfectly fine, but I put about 17% butter/lard in that dough (as percent of flour weight), which may help with the freezing.

I would guess that it would work fine. Just give it a couple of days to thaw in the frig.
Maybe, but my dough uses very little yeast and they do get killed off in the freezer. That said they would prob survive a short stint in there. You'll have to degass and form into a tight ball. You just can't leave it in a bowl in the fridge for 7 days and then just chuck the bowl in the freezer. Punch down and form it into a tight ball, coat with some oil then place in a zip bag, with as much air as you can get out as possible and freeze. Thaw out as David mentions, in the fridge for a day or 2, Good luck. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Paul H
04-08-2008, 01:45 AM
Thanks for the replies. Will try it and let you guys know.

Paul H
04-11-2008, 01:01 PM
Ok,made the pizza last night. Took it cold from the frig. Stretched it and put on a screen. Put it in a preheated 500 degree oven on pizza bricks. Crust was tasty but the middle stuck to the screen. I forgot to spray it before hand. This was a five day old dough. I think it would have been really good if the crust didn't stick . With the next dough I'll put the pizza on the first rack ABOVE the bricks and see if that helps. Bryan,really good recipe. The sauce you sent added a nice flavor. My wife loved the crust. She ate it all!!!

Bryan S
04-11-2008, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by paul h:
but the middle stuck to the screen. I forgot to spray it before hand. This was a five day old dough. I think it would have been really good if the crust didn't stick . With the next dough I'll put the pizza on the first rack ABOVE the bricks and see if that helps. Bryan,really good recipe. The sauce you sent added a nice flavor. My wife loved the crust. She ate it all!!!
Paul, Glad you liked it. Not sure if I ever posted about using a screen here on TVWBB, prob was over on the pizza forum. I sprayed mine the first time I used it and that was it. Never wash it for one. But the single biggest thing to remember when using a screen is not to push down on the dough at all. Once that dough falls into them little diamonds in the screen it's all over. This usually happens when putting on the sauce with a spoon. You tend to push a little too hard and it'll stick everytime. Just be gentle when spooning on the sauce and all should be well. Don't ask me how I know I just know. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif I tried all placements in my oven and one knotch above the middle rack position works best for my oven. I cook at 550 for 5 min and give it a 180 spin. Cook for another 2.5-3 min and it's done.
Happy No more work for you Paul. Enjoy your retirement you luck dog. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Paul H
04-13-2008, 08:21 AM
Bryan, I'm slapping my forehead"why didn't I think of that". Pushing down with the spoon when adding my sauce DUHHH!!. My wife has been telling me to prebake the dough first. Of course you know I didn't listen. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif This would also prevent the sticking.right??? Will try the second dough this Friday. I let it sit an additional 2 days in the frig then froze it.

Wayne Sizemore
04-14-2008, 04:16 PM
Success, more or less. I was pleased with the results of my first attempt with this recipe. Made a very good pizza on day 7 and a better one on day 8. I learned from the first one and made the second better. I definitely need to acquire a pizza screen. I have a perforated pan, but it does not allow the bottom of the crust to crisp well before the top of the pizza is done. Still made a far better pizza at home than available from the big chains. Thanks for the post Bryan.

David Lohrentz
04-14-2008, 05:23 PM
I don't think prebaking is a good idea. Your crust will get overdone before the topping is ready, unless you are doing a minimalist approach with the topping and/or using only things like sun-dried tomatoes in olive oil which take less time than NY style crust.

Paul K
04-15-2008, 05:58 AM
I don't think prebaking is a good idea.
David, I've been prebaking for some time now. I've found that to get the crust as crispy as I like it, I need to prebake (about 5 mins). If I don't, my cheese gets very brown before the crust is ready. I generally crank up the oven to 475-500 and use a screen. I've thought about this, and realize most don't prebake. Could it be my dough that needs tweaking?

Bryan S
04-15-2008, 07:34 AM
Paul, You need to change your oven placement of the pizza. If the top is getting done before the bottom you need to move it down. If the bottom of the crust is getting done before the top you would move it up. Also 475-500 is a little low for cooking pizza. I do all mine at 550. HTH

Paul K
04-15-2008, 09:32 AM
Bryan, I'll give that a try - thanks.
550!! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I don't know if the old gal can handle it! Maybe I'll toss in a chimney of burning lump http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif!

Bryan S
04-15-2008, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Paul K:
Bryan, I'll give that a try - thanks.
550!! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I don't know if the old gal can handle it! Maybe I'll toss in a chimney of burning lump http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif!
Paul, and others. What happens when you cook at a lower temp is the crust dries out. The longer it takes to cook the pie, the more moisture you lose out of the crust. Also if using a screen, just place the screen with the pizza on it, on the wire oven rack. Not ontop of stones, bricks, or............. With the screen you want good air circulation for a nice crispy crust. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Paul K
04-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Bryan,

Moved the pizza lower and cranked up the temp. Pizza came out fantastic! Thanks for the tips.

Paul

Bryan S
04-18-2008, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Paul K:
Bryan,

Moved the pizza lower and cranked up the temp. Pizza came out fantastic! Thanks for the tips.

Paul
Paul, http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif No prebake I take it?

Paul K
04-19-2008, 11:36 AM
Paul, No prebake I take it?

Nope, we don't need no stinkin' prebake no more http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif!

Bryan S
04-19-2008, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Paul K:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Paul, No prebake I take it?

Nope, we don't need no stinkin' prebake no more http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Way http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Glad to hear it.

Paul H
04-20-2008, 05:59 AM
Well, cooked my second pizza dough. Dough was tasty, a little on the salty side but good. Took it directly from the fridge after thawing. Dough was thin and started to tear. I think I found out some of my sticking to the screen problem. The sauce permeated right through the dough. Maybe I use too much sauce??? I should have coated the crust with olive oil to prevent that but forgot. Cooked at 525 on the rack above the pizza brick.Back to the drawing board. One other question. If I wanted a dough of a particular size and I'm trying to find how much the dough ball should weigh, could some one explain the Pi x r x r formula?????

Jeff S
04-21-2008, 07:05 AM
I am going to ask a stupid question here, What are the measurements for the recipe? Is there a cup measurment for the water and flower?

Paul H
04-21-2008, 08:28 AM
Jeff, the recipe is the first post on this thread.

Jeff S
04-21-2008, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by paul h:
Jeff, the recipe is the first post on this thread.
Yes, I saw that, but I am looking for one that is not in ounces.

Paul H
04-21-2008, 11:07 AM
Jeff, try this link
http://www.goodcooking.com/conversions/liq_dry.htm

Doug D
04-21-2008, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Jeff S:
I am going to ask a stupid question here, What are the measurements for the recipe? Is there a cup measurment for the water and flower?
You could try to go by volume, but by weight is always best in baking. A cup of packed flour is a lot more flour than a cup of sifted. Even scooping flour out of a container will yield more, by weight, than pouring it into the same scoop. Consistency is the key to success, and measuring by weight is your best insurance. You can get a digital kitchen scale that's accurate to 1/8 oz. for under $50, and it's worth every penny if you want repeatable results.

Bryan S
04-21-2008, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Doug D:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff S:
I am going to ask a stupid question here, What are the measurements for the recipe? Is there a cup measurment for the water and flower?
You could try to go by volume, but by weight is always best in baking. A cup of packed flour is a lot more flour than a cup of sifted. Even scooping flour out of a container will yield more, by weight, than pouring it into the same scoop. Consistency is the key to success, and measuring by weight is your best insurance. You can get a digital kitchen scale that's accurate to 1/8 oz. for under $50, and it's worth every penny if you want repeatable results. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
DITTO!
Jeff, I bought all 3 of my scales from here. I use them all the time. Esp with large amounts of burger and such from shopping at BJ's. I always use a scale for pizza dough and bread making. You'll use one more than you think. Here's a good one at a decent price. Food scale link (http://www.americanweigh.com/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=636)

Jeff S
04-22-2008, 03:18 AM
Thanks, guys. I will check these out. I could not wait, though, I made the dough last night. It is in the fridge now. I am hunting down a screen now so I can have pizze this weekend!

Wayne Sizemore
04-23-2008, 05:47 PM
Made my second batch from this recipe/technique this morning. I only have a cheap Taylor scale I got on closeout at Wally World for 5 bucks. Probably not the most accurate scale around, but still has to be better than working with cups for measure. Worked pretty well for my first dough. I plan to use today's dough this Saturday night. Will not be a very long ferment in the fridge, but it is not kept as cold as Bryan's beer fridge. Will see how it works out on the four day plan.

Steve Petrone
04-24-2008, 03:29 PM
Bryan, I have to thank you for getting this pizza thread moving. Pizza is just sooooo good when you have a good crust. You have managed to get the story out! Great work.

David Lohrentz
04-26-2008, 04:59 PM
For many years I baked bread just going by feel on the amount of flour to add, then adjusting while kneading. I did it that way because that's how my mother taught me, bless her heart. I got good results most of the time, but maybe one batch out of 7 or 8 didn't quite turn out the way I wanted.

Since getting a good scale and measuring weight meticulously, I've gotten much more consistent bread results, plus I'm much better at experimenting because it is now quite easy to hold all variables except one or two constant. When you aren't weighing ingredients, you are constantly varying many variables a little bit, even if you think you are following the same recipe.

Bread baking is very formulaic, much different than most cooking, although brining and curing is somewhat similar. I have an excel spreadsheet for my bread experiments where I enter all the variables, how many grams of total flour, the hydration rate, what percent of whole wheat, what percent AP flour, what percent of the dough to be in the starter/poolish/soaker, what percent salt, etc. The spreadsheet then kicks out the grams for each portion.

A.D.Letson
04-28-2008, 01:41 PM
Just made this recipe and it is in the fridge for an 11 day ferment (used 1/2 tsp yeast). This is my first pizza dough so we'll see how this goes.

Jeff S
04-28-2008, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
This is for my NY style pies.
Here's my recipe for 2 - 20 oz balls for 2 - 16" pies or 4 10 oz balls for 4 - 12" pies.

Ceresota AP Flour (100%) 24.56 oz
Water (62%) 15.22 oz
IDY (0.33%) 0.76 tsp.
Salt (2%) 2.5 tsp.

For the AP flour look for Heckers/Ceresota, Robin Hood, or King Arthur AP flour. I use a Kitchenaid Pro 600 stand mixer for my pizza dough, here's the process.
Put the water in the bowl and add the salt, strir to dissolve. Add the yeast and the sifted flour and mix with the spiral dough hook on speed 2 just till it comes together, less than 2 min. I then let it sit for 15 min and then add oil (if using it) do a final knead on speed 2 for 4-5 min. I then weigh out the dough balls to 20 oz hand knead in to a smooth ball, oil and place in a gladeware round container and in to the beer fridge (34-36 degrees) it goes for the cold ferment. I get very little rise in the fridge with my dough. Let it cold ferment in the back of the fridge for 5-14 days. I cook on a pizza screen at 550 degrees (15 min preheat) on the middle rack for 8-9 minutes. I rotate the pie 180 after 5 1/2 min. Then just eyeball it for done. I go by color, I hate under cooked pizza's. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
EDIT: If you want to go long on the cold ferment, 8-14 days cut the IDY yeast back to 1/2 tsp. With the AP flour and no oil this makes a nice chewy crust. You can add oil if you want just remove a TBS of water and replace with regular Olive oil, not extra virgin. I use Regular Bertolli Classico 100% Pure Olive Oil gold & red label, bought at BJ's for a good price. It's like $25.00 for a 5 liter jug. This is really good olive oil. For extra virgin I use Morea. But I don't use that in my pizza dough.

Bryan:
Crust was DELICIOUS! My jaws are aching it was so chewy! I loved it. It will be better when I get my scale. I had a hard time streching it without getting a hole. It ended up between 12-13 inches. This is a keeper.
Thanks!

Paul H
04-29-2008, 09:14 AM
Tried a new recipe yesterday. Will, post the ingredients if it turns out ok on Thursday night. Used combination wheat and regular flour. Mixed it with a stand mixer and finished kneading it by hand. I really enjoyed feeling the dough as I was doing this. Question: with all things equal will a dough turn out lighter and more bread like if you let it rise , punch down and let it rise again rather than letting it cold ferment????

Bryan S
04-29-2008, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by paul h:
Question: with all things equal will a dough turn out lighter and more bread like if you let it rise , punch down and let it rise again rather than letting it cold ferment????
Paul, As far as my tastes go yes. I don't like the quick rise because of the bread like taste of the crust. It's fine when I'm making my butter crust pan pizza dough or just regular pan pizza dough, overnight/24 hr ferment in the fridge. I just don't like that taste for NY style dough/crust.

A.D.Letson
05-01-2008, 06:14 PM
Bryan,

Just wanted to make sure I have all the steps left for this pizza down. Take the dough balls out, let them come to whatever temp I am most comfortable with, stretch and put on screen and bake. Am I missing anything?

Bryan S
05-02-2008, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by A.D.Letson:
Bryan,

Just wanted to make sure I have all the steps left for this pizza down. Take the dough balls out, let them come to whatever temp I am most comfortable with, stretch and put on screen and bake. Am I missing anything?
A.D. Yep that's it, and sauce, cheese and some roni. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Also bake it as hot as your oven will go. Give it a 180 spin after 4-5 min then keep an eye on it. They tend to finish fast in my oven. Oven placement might be hit or miss the first time or two, unless you already have made homemade pies before. Good luck, hope it turns out great for you. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A.D.Letson
05-02-2008, 05:54 PM
Reading the pizza forum scares me a little bit http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I just thought that cooking was a challenge before I started looking into how to make pizza! Thanks for having a well described recipe.

Are you willing to divulge what you use for sauce on your pies? And I have seen that you are a pepperoni connoisseur. Any recommendations?

Bryan S
05-02-2008, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by A.D.Letson:

Are you willing to divulge what you use for sauce on your pies? And I have seen that you are a pepperoni connoisseur. Any recommendations?
A.D. For the sauce I love this local PA pizza sauce Delgrosso pizza sauce. (http://www.delgrossos.com/piz.html). I have tried all 3 and the roni is my least favorite. The NY Style IMO is perfect and use that for my NY Style pies. The Supreme goes on all my pan pizzas. As far as roni goes yes I love the stuff. It goes on about 95% of my pies. As far as the brand goes, the best to me I have found so far is Ezzo roni made in Ohio. I buy this one here. (http://www.pennmac.com/items/3204)

Paul H
05-05-2008, 03:40 AM
Ok,I tried my pizza dough on Thursday. It had sat in the frig since Monday. It was really good . I changed the recipe and I'm open for comments or suggestions. I used Gold Medal flour. It said was for bread machines. I thought it might be a little on the low side with protein so I added 2 tsp of Wheat Gluten. I cut back on the regular flour and added whole wheat flour. The results were really good. The dough tasted not bread like but more like a pizza should. Crust had a nice color from the whole wheat flour. It had great extensibility. This baby stretched out to 18" with ease. Cooked it at about 515. The dough didn't have a real big end crust but it was decent. I would like it to have had more chewiness like a real NY style pizza. Any ideas. here is the recipe.

13.32 oz- regular flour
2.0 oz- whole wheat flour
9.65 oz- warm water
.45 tsp-IDY
1.36 tsp-noniodized salt(sea salt)
.97 tsp-oil
I added the flours and salt together. Put the IDY in the warm water, let it sit for a minute or so until I saw it bubbling and added it slowly to the dry stuff. I used a stand mixer. When it was all combined I kneaded it by hand for 5 minutes. This was the best part of the whole process beside eating it. Really got to feel the dough. Hey Bryan, my retirement was official as of last Friday. My head is still spinning.

Paul K
05-05-2008, 07:21 AM
Paul,

I'm a novice when it comes to pizza dough; still experimenting with my own pizzas. I may be wrong, but I thought I read that eliminating the oil and kneading the dough longer will make it chewier. Pizza gurus, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Did your dough yield 1 or 2 pies? I'm still at the measuring stage; no scales. Approximately what does 15.32 oz of flour measure out too (3-4 cups?) 18" is a good size pie.

Paul H
05-05-2008, 01:04 PM
Paul, It gave me enough dough for one pie. There are 8ounces in a cup so it's almost two cups of flour. I'm a novice too when it comes to pizza dough. When I find the right combo I'll make a bigger batch and freeze some. Maybe I have to knead it more than five minutes. The dough sure was tasty. It baked up to a nice golden brown. If you find a combo you like, use the Lehman calculator to make the size pie you desire. This calculator is amazing. It adjusts all your ingredients to make that size pie.

Jim Swalwell
05-06-2008, 10:12 AM
I've been reading this post with great interest over the last couple weeks. Some of the weights are carried out to 1/100's of an oz. What scale is used for this or can it just be close.

Bryan S
05-06-2008, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Jim Swalwell:
I've been reading this post with great interest over the last couple weeks. Some of the weights are carried out to 1/100's of an oz. What scale is used for this or can it just be close.
Jim, just make it close. Here's how I do it.
Ceresota AP Flour (100%) 24.56 oz = 24.55
Water (62%) 15.22 oz = 15.20
IDY (0.33%) 0.76 tsp. = 3/4 tsp

A.D.Letson
05-07-2008, 07:23 PM
1 cup of flour = approx. 3 oz

A.D.Letson
05-08-2008, 03:34 AM
Bryan,
Is this a dough that needs a "rim" put around the outside? And, if so, how do I do that? Thanks!

David Lohrentz
05-08-2008, 12:36 PM
1 cup of flour = approx. 3 oz

Actually, the weight of a cup of flour can vary a huge amount, depending how you scoop it, how you level it, how accurate your cup is, and depending on the flour itself. Even a small deviation can alter the results a lot since it would throw Bryan's carefully selected 62% hydration rate out the window, so that is why bakers go by weight.

A.D.Letson
05-08-2008, 01:18 PM
I knew when I posted that that I was going to get bounced for it http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I agree with you whole-heartedly. I took all the flours out of my cabinet the other day to find out what each weighed by "cup" and they were all over the place.

That being said, for most baking recipes that call for a cup of flour, rather than a weight, I would think that 3 oz would suffice, imho. On recipes where it matters, they have weights anyway, or should.

Bryan S
05-08-2008, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by A.D.Letson:
Bryan,
Is this a dough that needs a "rim" put around the outside? And, if so, how do I do that? Thanks!
I put one on the crust but you really don't have to. Are you going to stretch it out by hand or rolling pin? If the later you won't get a rim but it'll still be good. I take the dough ball out of the container and flour it on the bottom side very lightly and place it on the counter. Flateen the dough out some and then using your finger tips just make a rim about 1/2-3/4" in from the edge working around the dough ball. After you have that done pick it up and stretch it out being carefull not to stretch out the rim too much andwork it to the desired size. It's hard to explain, need to get that video done. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

A.D.Letson
05-08-2008, 06:50 PM
Thanks for all the help Bryan. Tomorrow's pizza may or may not be good, but it won't be because of a lack of information. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I will be doing it by hand. Because you have talked about videos and you need to see it, I got on Youtube and I think I've got an idea of what I'm supposed to do. Flatten it on counter, hold by rim to let gravity stretch, and then use to knuckles to stretch last.

Bryan S
05-08-2008, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by A.D.Letson:
Flatten it on counter, hold by rim to let gravity stretch, and then use to knuckles to stretch last.
Yep, That's it. I need to make up some dough balls and get my Stepdaughter to shoot the video instead of trying to splain it. It's easier to grasp seeing it done. Well anyway good luck. Hope it turns out good for you. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Paul H
05-10-2008, 03:06 AM
Made pizza dough with 1/4 wheat flour and two Tablespoons of italian seasoning. My wife thoroughly enjoyed the crust. I, on the other hand , am still searching for the N.Y. Style crust and taste that I remember from back east.Pizza had too much grease . I think I'll cut back on the pepperoni and sausage next time. May add some onion and garlic powder next time. Very pretty crust when cooked. Moderately thick end crust. Kind of like it bigger myself. Cooked on the stones at around 525

A.D.Letson
05-11-2008, 07:40 PM
Wanted to report back about my pizza making over the weekend. The first thing that I found is that pizza dough is not as easy to handle as some make it look. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Of all the things I have done cooking, I am not sure that any have frustrated me as much as trying to get that dough into a round (yeah right) and thin form. Other than that, everything seemed to go well.

I took the dough straight from the fridge and cut it to 12.5 oz as the pizza stone that I had to borrow was smaller than 16 inches. I began to work with it immediately because I figured I would rather have dough that was more difficult to stretch than warm dough that would stretch too easily. I did like I had seen in videos, been told, etc. and it worked...kinda. Will take some practice.

Anyway, I got it stretched and covered my peel with corn meal and put the dough on the peel and dressed with Pizza Hut sauce (wasn't brave enough to do everything homemade the first time), Bel Gioso mozzarella cheese, and Hormel Pepperoni. Heated the oven on broil for 10 minutes then down to 550 for 20 minutes. Almost destroyed the pizza trying to get it on the peel (how do you do that with a larger pizza????) and finally got it on there without burning any appendages too severely (oven rack at 550 degrees is really hot, let me tell you.)

The pizza stone was on the lowest rack next to the burner so the crust got a little bit over done before the toppings were done but it was really good. Anyone that is teetering over whether or not to try this should definitely take the plunge. After eating the homemade pizza a total of three times over the weekend and then trying a bite of Dominos today, it is a different world. The homemade dough was crunchy on the bottom but had a full, rich taste and chewy crumb and the rim had about an inch of oven spring. The cheese and pepperoni left something to be desired, but overall, after moving the pizza stone higher and getting a more evenly cooked crust, my wife and I agreed that this has taken the place of our favorite pizza. And, for all the trouble, the return on investment with this is awesome. This recipe took little to no work and turned a good result the first time I tried it. Thanks a bunch Bryan S. You have made a believer out of me. Spending $15 for a pizza out is history.

P.S. I took a couple pictures and hope to have them up tomorrow.

P.P.S. Bryan, please get that video on dough stretching done because I am struggling. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I made pizza 3 times this weekend and I think it got uglier each time.

John McD
05-12-2008, 09:21 PM
Once you get the hang of it, turning a dough ball into a pizza goes pretty fast. Its hard to describe, so that video will be your best instruction. As a teenager, I worked in a pizza restaurant and learned how to "throw" a pizza. One bit of advice, do this outside by the BBQ. Flour will fly. Better on the patio than in the kitchen.

Paul H
05-13-2008, 11:26 AM
John, good advice. Also, if you decide to do indoors make sure you are away from the ceiling fan and it is off. Don't ask http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

D Larsen
05-16-2008, 06:06 AM
First try at a modified version of this, using the bread machine for the hard part...

Dumb questions : Do you put each ball in a separate container for the ferment ? How much should I expect it to rise/"double" ?

Thanks !

Dean....

Bryan S
05-16-2008, 08:03 AM
Dean, yes seperate container just because you don't want to work the dough before stretching it. If you want to do one ball then you would seperate it into 2 about 24 hrs before making the pizza to allow the dough to relax again. It hardly rises at all, with the cold ferment.

D Larsen
05-16-2008, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
Dean, yes seperate container just because you don't want to work the dough before stretching it. If you want to do one ball then you would seperate it into 2 about 24 hrs before making the pizza to allow the dough to relax again. It hardly rises at all, with the cold ferment.

Thanks, Bryan ! Your "support" for this thread is appreciated ! I love a good pizza, so I look forward to seeing what these taste like.

I had put my dough into 1 container, and it had expanded...enough to fill the container ! That's why I asked...

If you can tolerate another question : the dough seemed kinda dry...did a hand knead after the machine got done with it, but still had "wrinkles" and cracks. Should it be smooth when you put it in the fridge ?

I don't have the scale or the screens (yet !), and I'm not into baking, so I'm flying by the seat of my pants ! As others have said....hey, it's only flour, etc....if it sucks, I'll throw it out and start over again ! Not like I bought an expensive rib roast or anything !

Thanks again !

Dean....

Bryan S
05-16-2008, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by D Larsen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryan S:
Dean, yes seperate container just because you don't want to work the dough before stretching it. If you want to do one ball then you would seperate it into 2 about 24 hrs before making the pizza to allow the dough to relax again. It hardly rises at all, with the cold ferment.

I had put my dough into 1 container, and it had expanded...enough to fill the container ! That's why I asked...

If you can tolerate another question : the dough seemed kinda dry...did a hand knead after the machine got done with it, but still had "wrinkles" and cracks. Should it be smooth when you put it in the fridge ?

I don't have the scale or the screens (yet !), and I'm not into baking, so I'm flying by the seat of my pants ! As others have said....hey, it's only flour, etc....if it sucks, I'll throw it out and start over again ! Not like I bought an expensive rib roast or anything !

Thanks again !

Dean.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah the bread machine prob got the dough pretty warm that's why all the rising. It should be smooth and somewhat sticky. Just sticky enough to get a little bit stuck to your hand but for the most part it releases from your hand, not like your whole hand gets covered in wet gooey dough. You can reknead it if it's outgrowing the container. Make sure to get all the air out but with minimal kneading. The more you work it the more heat you get and the more it will rise. HTH

D Larsen
05-16-2008, 11:01 AM
Bryan,

Yeah, I was getting condensation on the lid of the bread machine, so I figured there was "heat" going on....I kept adding water, a TBS at a time, cause it just didn't "look right", although, as I said, I don't know what "right" is ! Sounds like I needed to keep going with the water, 'cause my dough is dryer than what you describe.

Well, I'll carry this experiment on and see what happens ! I can tell you, it SMELLS great !!!

Dean...

Paul H
05-26-2008, 03:11 AM
Made a dough the other day with some wheat flour in it. Decided to spice it up and added 1T italian seasoning, 1T garlic and 1T onion powder. Everything went together great . I hand kneaded for 8 minutes put dough in frig for 4 days. Took the dough out and started to stretch. It completely fell apart in my hands. I have since found out that too much onion powder is not a good thing. Back to the drawing board.

Bryan S
05-26-2008, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by paul h:
Made a dough the other day with some wheat flour in it. Decided to spice it up and added 1T italian seasoning, 1T garlic and 1T onion powder. Everything went together great . I hand kneaded for 8 minutes put dough in frig for 4 days. Took the dough out and started to stretch. It completely fell apart in my hands. I have since found out that too much onion powder is not a good thing. Back to the drawing board.
Paul, 4 days with all that powder was prob the problem. If you want to use onion, and or garlic powder, I think you'll need to only do a 1 or 2 day cold ferment with it. If that doesn't work cut the powder amount in 1/2 and go from there.

Paul H
05-27-2008, 02:57 AM
Bryan, will try cutting back on the amounts. From the smell of the dough I'd say way too much garlic anyway. Another question, if I wanted to go longer on the cold ferment could I add a little sugar? Also, email me off line . Thanks

Bryan S
05-31-2008, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by paul h:
Bryan, will try cutting back on the amounts. From the smell of the dough I'd say way too much garlic anyway. Another question, if I wanted to go longer on the cold ferment could I add a little sugar? Also, email me off line . Thanks
Oh boy! See yeast multiply as long as there is food. The more yeast you start out with the faster they go to a certain point, then, well they are canibals, so you know what happens when the food runs out. So if you wanted to go longer you'll need to give them a little extra food but it's a double edge sword. The more food they have the faster they multiply so how much longer do you want to go?

Doug D
06-01-2008, 07:47 AM
I think I would try eliminating the additions to the dough in the beginning, and wait and briefly work them in just before forming the crust. Garlic and onion both are known to have anti-microbial properties, and may well be what caused the breakdown. I used to add dried onion to my doughs back when I was making them right before cooking, but, truth be known, I never could taste it under all the toppings.

Wayne Sizemore
09-26-2008, 06:11 PM
Just wanted to give praise to Bryan for posting this recipe/techniqe for making pizza dough. Since my first attempt, I have been making my own pizzas every week (except for one) since April. I have had consistent results every time. I have not bought pizza since my first try. My 7 year old daughter said today that she wishes I could make pizza for her school (they have pizza every Friday). Not real hard to beat school food, but made me feel good anyway. Now that I am comfortable with this technique, I may start making adjustments to see if I can make it better (for my tastes). Again, my praises to Bryan for sharing this with us. It has revolutionized the pizza experience at my house and hopefully at others as well.

Shawn W
11-04-2008, 10:06 AM
Ceresota AP Flour (100%) 24.56 oz
Water (62%) 15.22 oz
My Salter only does fractional, not decimal oz, I'm going metric cuz it doesn't hurt my head

Ceresota AP Flour (100%) 696.26g
Water (62%) 431.48g


First balls are in the fridge for the weekend, can't wait!!

Alan S.
11-06-2008, 07:26 AM
Let's talk cost. Once you get over any initial investments you have to make (screen, stone, scale...), what is the food cost per pizza based on what you are seeing? I realize this depends on size of pizza and toppings used.

I would think that if you buy smart and use the ingredients regularly so you don't waste, making your own delicious pizzas at home should be a money-saver.

One last item: I agree with a previous post-er about hand-tossing the dough. Used to do that when I worked at a place in high school. Just hand press it and stretch it out to about the size of a frisbee or a dinner plate, get it on top of your hands (your hands should be placed like you are holding a canteloupe from the top side, then toss it up with a twisting motion! You WILL drop some. Once you have it down, it always impresses the youngsters.

Gary Bramley
11-06-2008, 04:01 PM
Alan,

I figure I am spending $10 - $13 (give or take for topping selection) for two 16 inch pizzas. The only local pizza worth considering charged $17 for one 16 inch... that was over a year ago. It's a big savings in my house.

Gary

r benash
11-06-2008, 04:51 PM
So screens only it is then. For your NY style pizza's what kind of cheese/mix do you guys prefer?

Shawn W
11-06-2008, 05:38 PM
I have a similar question regarding meats. What's a good pepperoni to use, or what are the qualities of the pepperoni like in your pictures Bryan?

So, in my previous dizza-sters (too doughy, uncooked middle, too thick, too much cheese, crummy cheese, lousy sandwich meat pepproni & salami for toppings) well you get the idea.

Do you use like a dry pepperoni from the deli?

Bryan S
11-06-2008, 06:43 PM
My hands down fav roni is Ezzo Brand from Ohio. Look for the Margarita Brand, BJ's carries it as well as Costco I think and IIRC you have a Costco near you? The Margarita brand is a top notch roni. Hormel also makes a very good roni. Those are the only 3 I will buy. If your getting a soft center many things can be the problem or a combo of several. Crust too thick for the high temp you're cooking at. My NY style is pretty thin, about an 1/8" thick when the pie is done cooking. What are you cooking on a stone, screen, or a solid pan? I much prefer a screen. If cooking on a stone, about an hour preheat is ness. Also your temp is critical as well as the rack position in the oven. The latter is trial and error, only takes a few tries to get the rack position right. I do middle rack in the oven, full tilt @ 550º and the pies take about 8 min. Finding the right rack position is critical so the bottom and top cook at the same time and are done at the same time. If you get one where the bottom gets done before the top, just stick it under the broiler to finish the top. Top done bottom not move the rack to the lowest position but remeber it will brown very quick on you. Fine line between brown and burned after the pie has been in the oven for any period of time. HTH and good luck Bud.
EDIT: Link to Ezzo roni and where I buy it from. Penn Mac Co. (http://www.pennmac.com/items/3204)

Paul H
11-07-2008, 07:00 AM
Alan, to me the cost is almost irrelevant. The quality of the pies I've been turning out is hands down better than anything I can buy locally. The most expensive pizza I've done was the one with pesto sauce. The ingredients included marinated artichoke hearts,calamari olives,roasted tomatoes, and feta cheese. I had enough to do two 18" pizzas.BUT, It was fantastic. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Not the kind of pizza you want to do every week but a nice change. Usually we just have a veggie pizza(green peppers,onions,fresh mushrooms, and black olives) with pepperoni. Even the grand kids rave about the pizza and they are very picky eaters.

Gary Bramley
11-08-2008, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by paul h:

............ Even the grand kids rave about the pizza and they are very picky eaters.





That's what it's all about!!!!!!! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Gary

Shawn W
11-08-2008, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
My hands down fav roni is Ezzo Brand from Ohio. Look for the Margarita Brand, BJ's carries it as well as Costco I think and IIRC you have a Costco near you? The Margarita brand is a top notch roni. Hormel also makes a very good roni. Those are the only 3 I will buy. If your getting a soft center many things can be the problem or a combo of several. Crust too thick for the high temp you're cooking at. My NY style is pretty thin, about an 1/8" thick when the pie is done cooking. What are you cooking on a stone, screen, or a solid pan? I much prefer a screen. If cooking on a stone, about an hour preheat is ness. Also your temp is critical as well as the rack position in the oven. The latter is trial and error, only takes a few tries to get the rack position right. I do middle rack in the oven, full tilt @ 550º and the pies take about 8 min. Finding the right rack position is critical so the bottom and top cook at the same time and are done at the same time. If you get one where the bottom gets done before the top, just stick it under the broiler to finish the top. Top done bottom not move the rack to the lowest position but remeber it will brown very quick on you. Fine line between brown and burned after the pie has been in the oven for any period of time. HTH and good luck Bud.
EDIT: Link to Ezzo roni and where I buy it from. Penn Mac Co. (http://www.pennmac.com/items/3204) Thanks Bryan, I'm going out to try and find some pepperoni today, I'll hit Costco, a butcher shop that does some of their own sausages, and a couple delies. I'll keep an eye open for those brands.

Just to clarify, my previous pizza disasters were not using your dough recipe. I've tried a few different pizza dough recipes in my bread machine.

r benash
11-08-2008, 07:52 AM
Any special preference for type of cheese or blend to go with the pepperoni ? http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Shawn W
11-08-2008, 08:11 AM
Ray this probably doesn't help you, I think they are Canadian but I'm going with Saputo (http://www.saputo.ca/indexEn_cons.asp) mozza, at least at first.


1st Prize at the 2006 Canadian Cheese Grand Prix in the Mozzarella Category
1st Prize at the 2006 Royal Agricultural Winter Fair in the Pasta Filata Cheese Category
1st Prize at the 2006 World Championship Cheese Contest in the Mozzarella Category
What I can mention that might help, I will not use cheap no name brand mozza again. I suppose one could be ok, but the one I tried was horrible. It was so soft it would barely grate, it was tough when melted, didn't stretch and didn't taste good. I thought Kraft mozza was pretty lousy too. Edit: primary objection to Kraft was it was way too salty

Once I have my crust nailed I'm going to try the roasted tomatoes for sauce and fresh grated asiago/parmeseam/romano no mozza and fresh herbs sort of thing.

Gary Bramley
11-08-2008, 11:06 AM
mozz topped with ny cheddar for my ny style.

Gary

Richard Batey
11-09-2008, 05:53 AM
Thanks Bryan for the pizza dough recipe. We had been using a bread machine recipe that included sugar, powdered milk, oil. It was OK, but your simple recipe processed in the KitchenAid 6 qt pro is the winning ticket! Just made another batch - this will be a regular item here.

Richard

Shawn W
11-09-2008, 06:24 PM
Where should I begin .... OMG!

That was so good! I can't believe I made that!!

I wish I could have took a pic but my wife is off with the camera today.

I need some practice shaping, but it was pretty good for first try. I did it on a 16" pan and it was round except for a straight line across a section, 1" at the furthest point from where it should have been. It had a moderate but not excessive edge crust. So it could have been better round and some of the dough from the edge might be better distributed evenly across the surface area, but that little nitpicking might take years of practice to perfect, and frankly it didn't bother me a bit.

I'll hit the pizza forum for some tips and instructions on shaping. Tonight I used parchment paper. I stretched the dough as far as I could holding it straight up and 'turning the steering wheel'. Then layed the dough down on the parchment and would lift up about 1/3 of the pie, stretch then lay down on the parchment. Repeated this a couple times until it was about 18" in diameter then rolled up an edge crust. The parchment held the dough in place when it was put down.

Cooked 6 minutes, flip 180, about another 6 minutes. Beautiful color, fully cooked crust. The parchment came off without any issue.

The 'screen' I used is one from the brined almond smoke pics. Not really a screen like yours but lots of paper punch size holes. The bottom of the crust had nice brown spots where all the holes were.

I don't have a big flipper, so the parchment worked to move it from the counter on to the pan and from the pan on to the cooling rack. Only thing about it: I have to trim the corners off next time, didn't this time and they went quite dark, smoked then crumbled (didn't see any fire though).

I should clean the oven before next time .. set off the smoke detector 3 times... http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I LOVED the taste of this dough (5 day ferment). Crust was chewy and tender at the same time.


The ultimate critic: my 10 year old son groaned when I told him I was making homemade pizza tonight (I have made some truly lousy pizzas). You should have seen his eyes pop out when I set that 1/6th piece of the pie in front of him! He said two things while we ate ('Can I have another one please' x 2).


http://members.shaw.ca/shawn.white/img/thumbup.gif Thanks Bryan! http://members.shaw.ca/shawn.white/img/thumbup.gif

Bryan S
11-09-2008, 07:07 PM
Shawn, glad to hear it came out good for you. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Whish you had the camera, would have loved to see a pic of it. How did make out on your Pepperoni search?

Shawn W
11-09-2008, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
Shawn, glad to hear it came out good for you. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Whish you had the camera, would have loved to see a pic of it. How did make out on your Pepperoni search? I found something that was ok, better than sandwich meat slices at any rate.

Schneiders (http://www.schneiders.ca/products.aspx?categoryID=9&productGroup=1) is a retail brand, I got the pepproni chub and Ham & Bacon Sausage chub. Just used the pepperoni tonight. The ingrediants on the pepperoni listed no mechanically seperated or by-products and it's about 1.5" across. I did find Piller's presliced pizza pepperoni (http://www.pillers.com/product.php?pid=88) at Safeway, I can try that sometime. Have you tried that one?

I also bought a wine chorizo to try and some hungarian salami from a deli.

I found the Saputo cheese I wanted but I also bought some Franco mozza from an Italian deli. The Saputo is still sealed so I used the Franco tonight and it was great. Way better than crap store brand mozza I've tried before.

Alan S.
11-10-2008, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by r benash:
Any special preference for type of cheese or blend to go with the pepperoni ? http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One mix I have seen used a lot is a blend of mozz, prov, and Fontana. I'd say start with 1/3 each, then experiment to get it the way you want it. Buffalo mozz is also supposed to be very good.

Shawn W
11-10-2008, 07:53 PM
Made another one tonight, trimmed the parchment to fit ... no smoke, no smoke detectors going off

It was great! Used Saputo, Ham and Bacon Sausage, and Hungarian Salami. I'm pretty sure my last two dough balls are not going to last 8 more days. I have to whip up another couple of batches. I'm going to try the food processor, it says it makes dough.

BTW, I called Ellison Mills in Lethbridge today (where Costco got the flour I'm using) and found out the protein level is 13 - 13.5%, I think that's right up there with King Arthur Bread flour. It stretches well so I don't think I need to add gluten, but I probably will try bumping it up and see if it makes a difference.

Bryan S
11-10-2008, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by r benash:
Any special preference for type of cheese or blend to go with the pepperoni ? http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ray, as far as mozz goes many claim that Grande is the best. I have used it, and really didn't care for it that much plus I could only get it online. My favorite mozz is Sorrento, avail at BJ's. Don't confuse it with Sargento (apples and oranges). Many say Polly O is good but it's hit and miss with flavor or the lack there of at times, that's also avail at BJ's. I just love the sorrento brand mozz. I often use a mozz, assiago blend, 70 - 30 for my NY style pies. When I make a greek pie, I use a 50/50 combo of mozz and cheddar. HTH

Shawn W
11-11-2008, 06:45 PM
My camera came home after we ate most of another pie tonight.

A cold slice, my screen, parchment:
http://members.shaw.ca/shawn.white/img/BBQ/other/2008-11-11a001.jpg


Crust:
http://members.shaw.ca/shawn.white/img/BBQ/other/2008-11-11a002.jpg

Bryan S
11-11-2008, 06:59 PM
Beautiful Shawn, job well done. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Shawn W
11-12-2008, 03:59 PM
Made two more batches of dough today using the bread machine... I don't like it for this recipe because it has a warm cycle ... the dough was 90ºF when I took it out. Ah, anyway, it's in the fridge cooling.

Hey was thinking today it cold ferments to get a sour going, have you tried using uniodized salt? Or throwing in a little sourdough starter?

Rita Y
11-12-2008, 06:56 PM
Shawn, ALWAYS use UNiodized salt in bread recipes. You're on a good track...adding a little sourdough starter (a firm starter is great for this) is a nice option. Plus the long, cold retardation of the dough should give you good flavor.

Shawn W
11-15-2008, 08:21 PM
I tried to use the last of the first four balls I made tonight. It was very sticky, the others were a little sticky but I could easily handle them, not this one! It's 10 days old now, is that normal?

I couldn't work with it, wasn't sure what to do so I kneaded in a little more flour (less than 1/4C, for about 3 minutes) and stuck it back in the fridge to try again another day.

?

Rita Y
11-16-2008, 06:34 AM
Shawn, yes, that's normal if you had the dough refrigerated, not frozen. It was over-fermented. Ten days would be too long to hold the dough in the fridge. Perhaps bakeries, where the equipment might more carefully control the temps and humidity, might do this (I don't really know, but I doubt it). But in home fridges, you open the door a lot and the temps will fluctuate.

I usually mix the dough, let it stand at room temp for 10 or 15 minutes to make sure it is well hydrated, and shape it into balls. I roll the balls in the flour bin to coat them well (some people oil them) and wrap them in plastic wrap. Then I freeze them in a Ziploc freezer bag for up to a couple of months.

24 to 48 hours before making the pizzas (occasionally on the morning of baking day), I take however many balls that I'll need out of the freezer. I sprinkle a fairly thick coating of flour in the bottom of a Pyrex baking dish or pie pan (if you only have metal pans, line them with parchment so the dough doesn't touch the metal). Put the frozen dough ball in the pan, sprinkle the top with flour. Cover the dough with an oiled sheet of plastic and slip the pan into a produce bag from the supermarket. Make sure the bag is pooched out with air and use a clothespin to seal the bag. The assembly goes into the fridge to thaw and cold-proof (retard) for 1 to 2 days. The bag provides the humid environment that the dough loves.

Then, on baking day, I remove the assembly from the fridge and allow the dough to proof, still in the bag, at room temp until needed. I plan for a 6-hour proof for one of my doughs and about a 2-hour proof for the other.

For a last-minute pizza-making decision, you can remove the frozen dough balls from the freezer, put into the proofing pan as above, but add 1 to 1 1/2 hours, depending on the dough ball's size) to the room-temp proof time---1 hour for individual pizzas, 1 1/2 hours for 10-12" pies. The dough will still be good but probably not quite as flavorful.

Rita

Steve Petrone
11-16-2008, 01:38 PM
Rita, what is the optimum # of days to ferment in the fridge from your experience? My experience, my dough in my fridge, leads me to believe that 2 or 3 days is best.

Rita Y
11-16-2008, 06:04 PM
Steve, I agree with you. I personally don't think that retarding a dough for longer than 2 days has any advantage, at least with the doughs that I have made. I think that 24 hours is enough.

I wonder if many people could tell the difference between a 24-hour fermentation and a 48-hour fermentation, not taking into consideration the degradation of the proteins after 24 hours.

Rita

Shawn W
11-16-2008, 08:54 PM
Thanks for all the info Rita, I'll be sure to get some in the freezer! That will be very handy.

I retried the dough from last night that was so sticky ... funny but I worked it really well tonight ... nicest shaped pie of my first five ... I floured it a bit and I was throwing it up in the air and it turned into a circle instead of a triangle. When it was almost stretched enough I took the rolling pin to it, just a few strokes then on to the parchment on the pan. Stretched the edge around the underside of the pan all the way around, sauced and topped, then brought the edge back, rolling it under itself from the bottom side. Made a real nice edge this way.


Wine Chorizo, yellow onions (got a little black), sliced fresh buttons:
http://members.shaw.ca/shawn.white/img/BBQ/other/2008-11-16a001.jpg

Just wanted to add this in case someone else's dough went all sticky ... I was able to salvage mine.

Rita Y
11-17-2008, 04:08 AM
Good for you, Shawn! That's a gorgeous pizza!

Steve Petrone
11-17-2008, 06:57 AM
Perhaps the two day old dough tastes better than a one day old dough because the taste buds have been on hold for an extra day in anticipation!

Great looking pie-I have been using more mushrooms...good flavor few calories.

Paul H
11-19-2008, 07:02 AM
Shawn, nice looking pizza!!! I've used doughs with one day fermenting in the frig and two days in the frig. Honestly, I can't tell the difference. Bryan S. does a long ferment in the frig and he says there is a noticeable difference in dough taste. Maybe Bryan can chirp in here. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bryan S
11-19-2008, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
Rita, what is the optimum # of days to ferment in the fridge from your experience? My experience, my dough in my fridge, leads me to believe that 2 or 3 days is best.


Originally posted by Rita Y:
Steve, I agree with you. I personally don't think that retarding a dough for longer than 2 days has any advantage, at least with the doughs that I have made. I think that 24 hours is enough.

I wonder if many people could tell the difference between a 24-hour fermentation and a 48-hour fermentation, not taking into consideration the degradation of the proteins after 24 hours.

Rita
Steve, Rita, Basic stuff here I know but... The amount of yeast you use will dictate how long you can cold ferment it. The more yeast you start with the sooner you have to use it. The less you start with the longer you can cold ferement it. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Personally I like 7-11 day old pizza dough the best. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Rita Y
11-19-2008, 04:04 PM
Absolutely right, Bryan. Less yeast = longer fermentation; a good thing.

If I want a long fermentation (in hours not days), I dissolve 1/8 teaspoon of instant yeast in 1 cup of water, and then use 1 teaspoon of that mixture in my dough, usually a sponge-type (poolish, biga) starter. But a 7-day retardation...not something I see the value in since I haven't tried it. A long fermentation will give you a little more flexibility with the proof; a longer window for shaping and proofing the final dough.

But that's the fun of baking, isn't it? Playing with the dough and seeing how well you can control it to get the results that you're looking for. Obviously you have done that. I'll have to try a 7-dayer to see what happens.

Wayne Sizemore
11-21-2008, 11:50 AM
I have been making this dough every week since April of this year. I can tell a difference with the longer ferment times. I have used doughs from 3 days to 11 days. I agree with Bryan, 7 to 11 days is best. I also like the window of opportunity that it allows. If I can't make my pizzas when I have planned to, I have a few days to get them done.

Paul H
11-25-2008, 04:26 PM
Ok, dumb question. if you want a long ferment, I understand about cutting back on the yeast,but do you decrease the salt in the recipe or does it remain the same?

Bryan S
11-25-2008, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by paul h:
Ok, dumb question. if you want a long ferment, I understand about cutting back on the yeast,but do you decrease the salt in the recipe or does it remain the same?
The recipe I posted on page one is for a long ferment. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Are talking about other recipes? If so the salt is for flavor and also aids in the dough stretching part. I wouldn't cut the salt, I see no reason to.

Paul H
11-26-2008, 05:45 AM
Bryan, my wife told me that her mother told her http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif that salt slows the fermenting of the yeast. Don't have any idea if it's true or not. But, I did make a dough last night with reduced yeast and salt. Will let you know how it comes out. Not planning to use the dough til Saturday.Making a pesto pizza. Ingredients kind of expensive but well worth it.

Chuck R
11-29-2008, 04:09 AM
If you want to get serious abut baking, check out the new MyWeigh KD-8000 bakers scale at http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-kd8000.aspx . It does percentages. I just ordered one for home pizza making.

Shawn W
11-29-2008, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Chuck R:
If you want to get serious abut baking, check out the new MyWeigh KD-8000 bakers scale at http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-kd8000.aspx . It does percentages. I just ordered one for home pizza making. I use a cheap scale in grams ... I think grams would be significant and accurate for the quantities done for home baking (maybe not 1 ton mixers). I must be missing something, why do you say the ability to measure percentages is for serious baking? How would that be helpful?

You know what I would like? A scale that does decimal partial ounces instead of fractional. My scale when used in ounces goes 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8. It makes me bonkers trying to approximate say .59 ounces from a recipe on that scale http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so I just convert everything to metric and go in grams.

Rita Y
11-29-2008, 11:35 AM
Bryan, my wife told me that her mother told her http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif that salt slows the fermenting of the yeast.
Paul, your mother-in-law is correct. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Quote from Shawn: "I think grams would be significant and accurate for the quantities done for home baking"

I agree. The pros in bakeries use grams, as does the rest of the world. It's gaining in popularity for home use here in the States. It's so much easier to scale recipes and is more accurate than ounces unless you want to go out to 4 decimal places. Ugh! My first scale used fractions...never again.

BTW, if you're converting a bread recipe, I usually use an average of 4.8 oz (137 g) = 1 cup of white flour, scooped and leveled out of the flour bin. Some people use 5.0 oz (141.7 g). You might check how you measure 1 cup of flour. I've found it is a good starting point and comes pretty close in recipes that have no weights. You can adjust the dough with a little water or flour if necessary. Someone posted earlier in this thread that 1 cup of flour = 3 oz -- that must be for well-sifted flour. I don't know of anyone who sifts their flour for bread baking.

Rita

r benash
11-30-2008, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Alan S.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r benash:
Any special preference for type of cheese or blend to go with the pepperoni ? http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One mix I have seen used a lot is a blend of mozz, prov, and Fontana. I'd say start with 1/3 each, then experiment to get it the way you want it. Buffalo mozz is also supposed to be very good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Alan - we'll give it a try. Need to pick up some KA Bread Flour and give things a try in the next couple of weeks. Been really busy with work and other cooking activities over the last few weeks. Hopefully I'll be able to give Bryan's recipe and method a try. I recently picked up an old 14" round CI griddle (Wagner #14) that I also might try to see how it works instead of a stone in the oven. But will try screen only first.

K Kruger
12-02-2008, 06:34 AM
I made 4 pizzas last night using a slightly modded version of this recipe. My changes: I upped the yeast to 1 t and replaced some of the water with 2 T evoo into which some dried herbs had been steeped. The increased yeast was because I was thinking I would only be able to cold hold for 1 day (it ended up being 2), the oil because I look for a less chewy finish, and because it is a ggod carrier for the flavor volatiles from the dry herbs I pretty much always add to crusts.

Very nice dough! My four:


Dijon- and evoo-marinated roasted asparagus with roasted potato and Parrano cheese over a goat cheese-cream-garlic base, sprinkled with Aleppo:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/klkruger/pizza/101_0639.jpg



Sliced Campari tomatoes and smoked mozzarella over evoo base:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/klkruger/pizza/101_0646.jpg


Sautéed andouille and caramelized onion with fresh asiago over goat cheese-cream-garlic base:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/klkruger/pizza/101_0642.jpg


and, finally, roast turkey, caramelized onion and sautéed mushrooms over goat cheese-cream-garlic base with Parrano and aged asiago cheeses:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/klkruger/pizza/101_0650.jpg

Paul H
12-02-2008, 06:42 AM
Kevin, They look fantastic!!! How big were the pizzas? Did you use a stone or what to cook them on?

Gary Bramley
12-02-2008, 06:44 AM
Wow, awesome! One large andouille w/camelized onion and asiago, please.

Gary

K Kruger
12-02-2008, 07:00 AM
Thanks guys.

paul, probably around 9-10 inches. I just free-formed them and cooked one-at-a-time on a stone. I don't have screens anymore (lost in one move or another and never replaced) so it has been some time since I used one. One of these days I'll get screens again for the helluvit, but I am quite fond of free-forming so...

Leftovers for brunch soon!

r benash
12-02-2008, 02:06 PM
Uh, Kevin - just spank me and send me home with any one of the 4?

Sheesh!

Good tips. I plan on keeping to 12" when I finally get around to some I'll probably be sticking to 12" size. Need to pick up some KA Bread Flour, only have all purpose right now. TJ's is the only place that carries it around me that I've found so far.

Steve Petrone
12-02-2008, 04:58 PM
Kevin: Goat cheese-cream-Garlic base...ok now tells us just how to make that please. Thank you sir.

Bryan S
12-02-2008, 06:29 PM
K, Pies really look fantastic. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I almost made some dough over the weekend, but got side tracked. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I'm hungry for my sausage gravy, scrambled egg breakfast pie. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Shawn W
12-03-2008, 06:05 AM
I'll take two sausage and onion pizzas please Kevin. Is delivery extra? http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My last pizza had fresh green peppers, onions and mushrooms, chorizo and mozza. It was too much fresh veggies for 550º (my ovens max). They let off more water than that temp could eliminate in the normal cook time, so the cook time was extended and I felt the crust was too dark. So I thought I should sautee first next time but wasn't sure how that would turn out. I was happy to see that you do that. I like the herb infused oil in the crust idea too.



the ability to measure percentages is for serious baking? How would that be helpful? It occurred to me how this could be helpful ... say I want to scale this down for 12" pans, I can quickly estimate the surface area difference, then reduce the first ingrediant by that much (percentage) and the scale should do the rest of the work for me. Do the scales work that way?


Parchment: my pics show me using parchment paper ... I don't have the giant spatula so I just form the pie on the paper on the pan after stretching/tossing. I propose parchment is the Texas Crutch of pie shaping http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck R
12-03-2008, 08:44 AM
Shawn, I don’t have the scale yet, but as I understand it, you measure out your flour and set it as 100%. You then add your other ingredients as % rather than volume, oz. or grams, which I think would be helpful when working from recipes with percentages. It also has oz and grams.

Paul H
12-03-2008, 12:05 PM
Shawn, Tried cooking the veggies in a microwave. It softened up the green peppers so that they cooked on the pizza well and weren't crunchy. Wasn't to pleased with the onions though. I think if I left them in bigger hunks or rings they would have done better.

K Kruger
12-03-2008, 01:07 PM
They let off more water than that temp could eliminate in the normal cook time, so the cook time was extended and I felt the crust was too dark. So I thought I should sautee first next time but wasn't sure how that would turn out. I was happy to see that you do that. I like the herb infused oil in the crust idea too. I have a thing for herbed crusts. Good flavor that doesn't knock you over the head.

As for the vegs, I always sauté and/or take to the point of caramelization, for everything except for fresh tomatoes which I simply slice then salt and drain for a bit first. My problem with typical commercial pizzas has long been the vegs which tend to be sliced thinly so as to cook quickly but, still, the flavor ends up undeveloped or insipid.

I often sauté meats first too, depending on what I am using, so that there is browning and hence better flavor in the end.

K Kruger
12-04-2008, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
Kevin: Goat cheese-cream-Garlic base...ok now tells us just how to make that please. Thank you sir. Either you can sweat a little minced garlic in a bit of unsalted butter or evoo, very slowly till sweet and fragrant, not browned at all, or you can use a little granulated garlic. If doing the former, when the garlic is sweet, add a 1/2 c or so of heavy and bring to a simmer and reduce a bit, about 1/4; off heat, stir in crumbled goat cheese and allow to melt. Season with salt to taste and white pepper. If using granulated simply start with simmering the cream, adding a little gran garlic to the cream as it reduces; continue from there.

Steve Petrone
12-04-2008, 03:25 PM
mmmmmmmmmm...I can taste it now!

Bryan S
12-09-2008, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Shawn W:
I tried to use the last of the first four balls I made tonight. It was very sticky, the others were a little sticky but I could easily handle them, not this one! It's 10 days old now, is that normal?
Shawn, Prob from the heat cycle on the bread machine. I have no problem with stretching out a 10-11 day old pizza dough using this recipe. Although I store my dough in the very bottom and as far back as it will go, a 34-36º fridge that doesn't get opened all that much. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
There's getting to be some posts in here about 1-2 day old ferments, and this recipe is NOT designed for such a short ferment as written in my first post, the dough will not taste all that good. There is NOT enough yeast in the recipe as written for such a short ferment. If you want to do a short ferment, then you'll have to up the yeast a good bit. I just don't want anybody to think they can make the recipe as written in my first post and make a great pie one-two days later, not going to happen with such a small amount of yeast. This recipe is designed for a long, cold rest in the fridge, before it's ready to make a pie with. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Shawn W
12-10-2008, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
I tried to use the last of the first four balls I made tonight. It was very sticky, the others were a little sticky but I could easily handle them, not this one! It's 10 days old now, is that normal?
Shawn, Prob from the heat cycle on the bread machine. I have no problem with stretching out a 10-11 day old pizza dough using this recipe. Although I store my dough in the very bottom and as far back as it will go, a 34-36º fridge that doesn't get opened all that much...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Those ones were made in the KA, not the bread machine. I'm pretty sure condensation played a role, you said put each in a seperate container, but I should have mentioned I put 4 in one larger container, seperated by parchment. I put two in, in the fridge lid off. Then two more in and left the lid off for 3 hours or so. In the end it was probably my fault. I've been putting two together in a smaller container and it hasn't happened again.

Jeff Smith
01-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Wanted to post a big THANK YOU to everyone on this thread. I finally had this pizza tonight and it was beyond good.

We have made homemade pizza before that was good (not great). Not only was this recipe easy but some of the best pizza I have had in a while.

A couple of questions, the crust did not turn out quite as brown as I thought it would. Does anyone brush the crust with olive oil before it goes in the oven.

Also, we are big fans of bread sticks. I tried to make bread sticks with the second ball of dough. They were more like mini loaves of bread. Thats not a complaint because they were still unreal but was going for more of a stick than a loaf. Suggestions?

Shawn W
01-09-2009, 07:43 PM
About the browning, I've overbrowned a couple and I don't brush with oil. Try cooking a little longer, the cook time is a guideline. Thinner ones with less toppings need less time.


Also, we are big fans of bread sticks. I tried to make bread sticks with the second ball of dough. They were more like mini loaves of bread. Thats not a complaint because they were still unreal but was going for more of a stick than a loaf. Suggestions? There are different kinds, the thin little crisp ones up to the big soft bready ones (sounds like this is not what you are looking for). Can you describe what you are looking for?

I think the answer might be to just roll them out a little thinner if using this dough, then vary the temp and cook time to suit what you are looking for ... if you want crisper go a little lower temp and longer.

It wouldn't suprise me if those pencil width super crisp ones don't use yeast ... baking powder maybe and wetter (I say wetter because they are so smooth on the outside) ... a different dough.

Bryan S
01-09-2009, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Jeff Smith:
A couple of questions, the crust did not turn out quite as brown as I thought it would. Does anyone brush the crust with olive oil before it goes in the oven.

Also, we are big fans of bread sticks. I tried to make bread sticks with the second ball of dough. They were more like mini loaves of bread. Thats not a complaint because they were still unreal but was going for more of a stick than a loaf. Suggestions?
Jeff, not as brown as you would have liked. Top of pie or the bottom of the pie?

For Bread sticks, roll out ball of dough to about 1/4" thickness, then cut with a pizza cutter into about 1/2" wide strips. You can then just lay them out on parchment lined, or greased pan. If you want them smooth and round, instead of flat and rectangleur, just roll them before placing on the pan. Can brush with olive oil and sprinkle on Italian seasoning along with grated Asiago or parm cheese. Bake till golden brown. HTH

Chris Derum
01-12-2009, 03:45 PM
I gave this recipe a go for a couple of reasons. First there are very few places to get quality pizza in my area. The places that are decent I’m looking at $25+ for a decent pizza. I guess I hadn’t realized how the price of pizza has risen so much and the quality hasn’t kept up with it. Secondly, Bryan's contributions are always spot on. In particular the roadside chicken recipe, (which is now a go to recipe in my house). I've never made pizza at home before, but always wanted to try. We have a pizza stone we got as a wedding present 8 years ago and have never used it.

The first pie I made after only three days, mainly because I was impatient. Not having a clue what I was doing I made the mistake of kneading it again right before I tried to shape it. After researching more thoroughly on pizzamaking.com I now know that was a mistake as it was a huge pain trying to shape it. It kept contracting to its smaller size. Finally got it to a point where I thought it would work and I put an EVOO base, added caramelized onions, sautéed wild mushrooms, goat cheese, fresh thyme and oregano.
Conceding it was my first attempt, I was quite pleased. The crust was thicker than I would have normally liked, but it tasted really good. I told the Mrs. with a little more practice and research we may be on to something.

Second pie, I tried after 6 days. I did not do a second kneading and it formed really easily. I made the same pie as the first, but this time I added some prosciutto and some mozz. It turned out awesome. The wife says, “Ok, we’re not going out for pizza anymore.” I’m hooked, now it’s time to research different ingredient combinations.

r benash
01-13-2009, 11:51 AM
Ok so I am going to get started with Bryan's dough recipe. I only have ADY on hand so will need to make an adjustment. My guess is that I will need twice as much ADY versus IDY and use some of the water in the recipe for proofing the yeast. If Bryan is not working perhaps he can verify, if others agree or disagree with that conversion let me know?

Dough, sauce, and cheese are all components of equal gravity IMHO, and that is why I've been pestering about sauce and especially cheese mix.

There is a local pizzeria (Marrone's in Ardmore, PA) that I am trying to emulate. I know that they use sliced provolone only for their cheese, and that is what I want to try. Their dough is unique too, but I will try Bryan's to see how it goes.

I plan to make Bryan's dough recipe and make 2 pizza's on the screen and then 2 on the screen over a cast iron grill (vintage Griswold). Maybe even one in a #14 skillet.

One of the other things I am going to try is no knead bread in a CI DO, but that will be another thread.

r benash
01-14-2009, 01:30 PM
We'll see how it goes over the next 5 days or so. I came up with a ratio of IDY to ADY of 1:1.25 Balls are in the dough tins on the bottom shelf getting comfortable.

Bryan S
01-14-2009, 06:47 PM
Sorry I missed this Ray. Here's a conversion chart for you. (http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm)

r benash
01-15-2009, 08:42 AM
No worries. Great reference, thanks! Gotta run up to Bloomsburg this Saturday, so might have to change my plans for pork and kraut for the game Sunday. Might bring this dough out for some pizza and wings instead.

So far the dough tins are working great. Don't have any mositure building up. They don't have snap tight lids so I think they are working like they are supposed to (breathable).

Temperature on my bottom shelf is 42 degrees. Wondering if I should push them into the beer fridge in the basement. Think that's significant?

Bryan S
01-15-2009, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by r benash:
Temperature on my bottom shelf is 42 degrees. Wondering if I should push them into the beer fridge in the basement. Think that's significant?
Ray, you should be fine at that temp. Just keep an eye on it. If you start to get too much rise, then move them into the colder fridge.

r benash
01-16-2009, 01:26 PM
Thanks - actually it's running around 38-42 depending. Rise looks fine.

Paul H
01-17-2009, 04:23 AM
Been having good luck with a white flour/whole wheat mix in my dough. Had some people over the other night and they raved about the pizza.My wife hates the end crust. She'd always give it to me. Now, I hardly get any(end crusts that is http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) Moved into a new house just before Christmas. It has really high ceilings as compared to my old house. Man, you should see how high I can toss that dough now. Still have to watch out for ceiling fans though http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

r benash
01-18-2009, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by r benash:
Thanks - actually it's running around 38-42 depending. Rise looks fine.

Here's the pics. Thanks for the recipe and tips Bryan. Totally enjoyed these. All kind of ideas now of course in terms of what to try next. Have the other tin of dough yet and it will be fun to see how those two turn out in the next few days.

Made my own sauce with roasted grape tomatoes and can of whole marzanos. Did not cook the sauce, took small amount in a pan and heated to add/taste spices and to let the spices release oils/flavor - then back into the larger quantity. First pizza was sliced provolone with sweet peppers. Second was cheese mix of moz, parm, and Romano with onion, mushroom, and olives.

Pizza Pics (http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/rbenash/Cooking/Pizza/?action=view&current=a4f11ae2.pbw&t=1232931830)

Bryan S
01-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Looking great there Ray. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I really need to make up some dough here soon for homemade pies. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

joe cav
01-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Ok I have been following this thread for quite some time and made a batch of the OP's dough. Let it be in the fridge for 6 and 8 days respectively for the 2 balls...

I made some errors that I'll share, any advice is welcome.

I found out you cannot put the sauce and toppings on the skin while it is on the screen no matter how gingerly you spread it....the 1st one stuck badly. The taste however was great, it was an error in my method, lesson learned

The next skin I put the toppings on while it was on a peel then gently slid it off onto the screen, then into the oven. No sticking!! Again great crust.

An Issue I have is my oven maxes out at 550. When I put the cold pizza dough in it dips down to 475ish. Not sure how to cope with that.

Another anomaly I get are gigantic bubbles in the crust(not cheese). I have to open the oven door and pop them with a fork or else they get out of control. Not sure how to minimize the crust bubbles. Any Ideas?

Lastly, the bottom of the pizza is not as dark as I'd like before the toppings are getting near burned. Is this a function of moving the rack lower nearer the heating elements (electric oven)?

Again, thanks for the recipe and methods...I am really close to getting this nailed so any help with the above would be great...thanks!

Shawn W
01-23-2009, 09:02 PM
I found out you cannot put the sauce and toppings on the skin while it is on the screen no matter how gingerly you spread it....the 1st one stuck badly. The taste however was great, it was an error in my method, lesson learned

The next skin I put the toppings on while it was on a peel then gently slid it off onto the screen, then into the oven. No sticking!! Again great crust.

An Issue I have is my oven maxes out at 550. When I put the cold pizza dough in it dips down to 475ish. Not sure how to cope with that.

Another anomaly I get are gigantic bubbles in the crust(not cheese). I have to open the oven door and pop them with a fork or else they get out of control. Not sure how to minimize the crust bubbles. Any Ideas?

Lastly, the bottom of the pizza is not as dark as I'd like before the toppings are getting near burned. Is this a function of moving the rack lower nearer the heating elements (electric oven)? I do up my pizzas on my 'screen' but mine are metal with punched holes (you can see pictures of my screens a page or two up ... I also use parchment between the screen and the crust ... I don't have to move mine, you could try shaping and cooking your pie on parchment on the screen (just remember to trim any extra off around the outside)

temp dip is to be expected from opening the door, not much to do about it but try to be quick when the door is open

about the bubbles you can get a wheel having many short 'pins' (about the diameter of turkey skewers) that you roll over the dough that perforates it a few times per sq inch (don't know what these are called) ... I don't use one but I'd do it on the counter once my dough was mostly stretched and before putting it on the screen

yeah, from the sound of it try moving the rack down one to even out the cooking

joe cav
01-24-2009, 08:08 AM
I use the screen shown HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Winware-Seamless-Aluminum-Pizza-Screen/dp/B001CICFB6/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1232816533&sr=8-2). So it's a little different than yours.

And...I would think that using parchment paper would inhibit a crispy, brown bottom...No?

The bubble thing is more of an annoyance than anything, but left unchecked, it will wreck your pizza, or at least a part of it.

I was thinking of doing this, any thoughts?

Sauuce the skin, put it on the screen and put it in a 550 oven without toppings. Wait until you spin it (5 mins) then put your cheese on. That would allow additional time to bake without burning the cheese for those of us with ovens that top out at 550 and dip down considerably when you put the pizza in. Any obvious downside to this?

Thanks again...

r benash
01-25-2009, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by r benash:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r benash:
Thanks - actually it's running around 38-42 depending. Rise looks fine.

Here's the pics. Thanks for the recipe and tips Bryan. Totally enjoyed these. All kind of ideas now of course in terms of what to try next. Have the other tin of dough yet and it will be fun to see how those two turn out in the next few days.

Made my own sauce with roasted grape tomatoes and can of whole marzanos. Did not cook the sauce, took small amount in a pan and heated to add/taste spices and to let the spices release oils/flavor - then back into the larger quantity. First pizza was sliced provolone with sweet peppers. Second was cheese mix of moz, parm, and Romano with onion, mushroom, and olives.

Pizza Pics (http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/rbenash/Cooking/Pizza/?action=view&current=a4f11ae2.pbw&t=1232931830) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So the 2 above were made after 5 days of cold ferment, going to try the other two today after 12 days of cold ferment. Will update/edit with pics after the bake. Also going to set the screen on top of a round cast iron griddle to see if it helps brown the crust a bit more than the first round. Top was great on them IMHO and the crust really was good also, but want to see if I can brown the bottom just a little bit more in the same time frame without over cooking the top. Trying to tune the process to my oven.

Here's the pics:

Pies 3 and 4 (http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/rbenash/Cooking/Pizza/?action=view&current=1dc2dea2.pbw)

I would say there was some benefit from using the cast iron underneath the screens, but it was negligible. I will probably continue to use it since I did get the crust a little more brown underneath and the cook time for both pies was 10 minutes.

On the 4th pie I tried cheese on top of the "toppings" I like them better on top better. Cheese got a nice finish though. My wife actually like this way better but I like it when the toppings brown off.

Sweet pepper pizza was made the same. Came out great.

The dough was better than the first two (which were good in themselves). These two though, the dough raised a bit more and I got a better corona. The smell was incredible and very different from the first two at 5 days. Better overall bite and "chew" to the crust with the longer ferment.

Thanks Bryan!!

Bryan S
01-27-2009, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by r benash:
Thanks Bryan!!
You're welcome Ray, glad you liked the longer fermented dough. Great looking pies there, nice job. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

dsitterson
01-28-2009, 04:01 PM
Wow I though I was the stuff because I was getting dough from publix the local grocery and the pizza was kicking can't wait to go here I am a simple mae and like simple stuff this will be fun

Bryan S
01-28-2009, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by joe cav:
I made some errors that I'll share, any advice is welcome.

I found out you cannot put the sauce and toppings on the skin while it is on the screen no matter how gingerly you spread it....the 1st one stuck badly. The taste however was great, it was an error in my method, lesson learned

The next skin I put the toppings on while it was on a peel then gently slid it off onto the screen, then into the oven. No sticking!! Again great crust.

An Issue I have is my oven maxes out at 550. When I put the cold pizza dough in it dips down to 475ish. Not sure how to cope with that.

Another anomaly I get are gigantic bubbles in the crust(not cheese). I have to open the oven door and pop them with a fork or else they get out of control. Not sure how to minimize the crust bubbles. Any Ideas?

Lastly, the bottom of the pizza is not as dark as I'd like before the toppings are getting near burned. Is this a function of moving the rack lower nearer the heating elements (electric oven)?

Again, thanks for the recipe and methods...I am really close to getting this nailed so any help with the above would be great...thanks!
Joe, I use the same screen and don't have any issues with sticking. Clean your screen really good and dry it completely. Oil it down and then bake the screen at 350º for an hr, turn off oven and let the screen in there till cooled. That should stop the sticking problem. Also never wash the screen after the seasoning with the oil, unless you really have too. I did this to the screen I use, and have zero sticking issues.

All ovens, cookers, grills, smokers, etc. will drop in temp when opened, just the nature of the beast and really is a non issue IMO. Try opening the oven door slowly to avoid less heat loss. The faster you open the door, the more heat heat will be sucked out.

As far as the big bubbles go, your not getting all the gas pockets out of the dough when working/strtching it. I like to have some bubbles in the pie, but the ones you describe, sound way too large. Don't kneed the dough prior to working it, but you need to get more of the gass out of the dough, that'll eliminate those super large bubbles. HTH

Paul Anderson
04-26-2009, 11:24 AM
So I have a newbie pizza problem. I bought a digital scale, and weighed all of Brian's measurements out, but when done noticed the salt and IDY measurements were not in oz's. I put in .76 oz's of IDY, and 2.5 oz's of salt. Is my dough wrecked? Am I way off? how do I weigh these measurements out on my scale?

K Kruger
04-26-2009, 12:08 PM
Start over. Use the measurements called for. You have 5 times as much salt as you need.

Paul Anderson
04-26-2009, 02:01 PM
Starting over! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Rookie Mistake!

Shawn W
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
could be worse, at least you realized it BEFORE you made pies and started eating http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bryan S
04-27-2009, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Shawn W:
could be worse, at least you realized it BEFORE you made pies and started eating http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Yeah! No good could come from that. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Brad W
04-27-2009, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Paul Anderson:
Starting over! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Rookie Mistake!

Sorry, this cracked me up, one of the best first thread post I've read! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Paul Anderson
04-28-2009, 04:31 PM
Back in the saddle again! I redid my "first dough" experiment shortly after coming to grips with my mistake, and it has been "cold fermenting" since. I am tempted to take one dough ball out and give it a try early, but since Brian's Roadside Chicken turned out so good, I will respect his advice and wait til the recommended time for the dough.

Paul Anderson
05-03-2009, 04:39 PM
Finally the 7th day is here! I just got done making my first 2 pizzas. I cooked them on my primo junior. One was a classic pepperoni, sausage, and mushroom, and the other was a bbq chicken pizza. They were both good. Thanks Brian for the dough recipe. I have a few doughballs left, so I might have to try a few later this week.


http://i662.photobucket.com/al...afirstattempt006.jpg (http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu346/katopaul/pizzafirstattempt006.jpg)

http://i662.photobucket.com/al...afirstattempt005.jpg (http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu346/katopaul/pizzafirstattempt005.jpg)

Tom Ferguson
05-13-2009, 06:53 PM
ok... I'm gonna try this... nobody delivers pizza out here in the boonies, so making my own only makes sense.

For those of us without a lot of fancy schmancy scales & such... is the amount of yeast required for the original recipe roughly equal to one package of dry yeast? More? Less?

Bryan S
05-13-2009, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ferguson:
For those of us without a lot of fancy schmancy scales & such... is the amount of yeast required for the original recipe roughly equal to one package of dry yeast? More? Less?
Tom, the amount of yeast is measured in tsp, not weight, no fancy equip needed. To answer your ?, a packet of yeast is 2 1/4 tsp of yeast, so that's more than the 3/4 tsp of yeast that's called for in the recipe. HTH

Tom Ferguson
05-13-2009, 07:37 PM
Thanks, Bryan... I'm gonna give this a try.

Should I just toss the remainder of the yeast pkg or is there a way to save it?

el Cheapo here... LOL!

Bryan S
05-13-2009, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ferguson:
Should I just toss the remainder of the yeast pkg or is there a way to save it?

el Cheapo here... LOL!
Put the remainder in a little zip bag and toss it in the back of your freezer. Will keep in there for at least a year. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tom Ferguson
05-13-2009, 07:56 PM
gracias!

Looks like I might need to spring for a scale anyway... <sigh> oh well.

Hey, thanks Bryan!

Paul H
05-14-2009, 03:01 AM
Tom, you won't regret the purchase. The addition of a scale made my pizza dough making a heck of a lot more precise. The doughs started turning out much better.

Tom Ferguson
05-14-2009, 11:12 AM
ok... I got this one:

Oxo Scale (http://www.amazon.com/Oxo-Grips-Scale-Pull-Out-Display/dp/B000WJMTNA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1242331838&sr=1-1)

Not the cheapest, not the most expensive, but the reviews were good. Anyone use this scale?

Steve Petrone
05-14-2009, 11:33 AM
Tom, see Escali scale on amazon. $25 goes a long way... no complaints.

Dale Perry
05-14-2009, 11:36 AM
Wow. What a great thread. My head is swimming after reading all of this. I see that almost everyone uses a KA or something like that for preparing the dough. I do not have a big mixer but I do have a 2 lb loaf bread machine. Can this be done in it? Or am I going to have to spend more money that I dont have?
thank you.

Bryan S
05-14-2009, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Dale Perry:
I do not have a big mixer but I do have a 2 lb loaf bread machine. Can this be done in it?
Dale, yes you can just use your bread machine to mix and knead the dough. Most of the newer Bread machines have a pizza dough cycle on them. If not just use the dough only cycle. HTH

Doug D
05-14-2009, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Dale Perry:
I see that almost everyone uses a KA or something like that for preparing the dough.
I have a KA 6-qt. I no longer use it for pizza dough. High hydration and a cold ferment, in addition to consistent measurements, are all I require these days. I barely knead, and mostly just mix, cloak, rest and repeat twice in a 30 minute time frame before stashing in the refrigerator for 24 hours.

Paul H
05-15-2009, 03:14 AM
Dale, I've used KA before and really like it but it's not available locally here now. I started using bread flour made for bread machines but I use a Cuisinart mixer to make the dough. My wife has used the bread machine to make dough for stuff but I have not used it as of yet to make pizza dough. I make a combo dough from white and wheat flour. The wife really likes the taste. Matter of fact I've got one cold fermenting in the fridge right now for tonight. Been in there since Tuesday.

J Rector
05-17-2009, 02:43 AM
pardon my ignorance but why hasn't anyone suggested using you gas grill to get higher temp cook instead of heatinghte whole house up for an hour for a few minute cook. I figure there must be a reason.

Inquiring minds want to know

Tom Ferguson
05-17-2009, 03:54 AM
Well, I got all the ingredients and equipment rounded up and made my dough last night from Bryan's original recipe. Very simple. Now the dough is in the fridge waiting 'til next weekend.

I'm sure I'll have fun shaping the first few. I just hope at least one pie ends up in the oven and not thrown against the wall. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Next question: Will this pan work? I have 2 of them and would hate that they would be ineffective.

pizza pan (http://tinyurl.com/qosooa)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41K1AG4QF9L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

Bryan S
05-17-2009, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by J Rector:
pardon my ignorance but why hasn't anyone suggested using you gas grill to get higher temp cook instead of heatinghte whole house up for an hour for a few minute cook. I figure there must be a reason.

Inquiring minds want to know
I use a pizza screen, not a stone to cook the pizzas on, so I don't have to heat the oven and the stone up for an hour. Not sure where you read to heat the oven up for an hour at?

J Rector
05-18-2009, 02:02 AM
Hey Bryan

This may have been in another post and i'm getting them mixed up. Somewhere sombody was talking about getting the oven temp up to 550 and using bricks.

Paul H
05-19-2009, 02:43 AM
J, now that the weather has gotten better I cook all my pizzas on the gas grill outside. I put down some unglazed quarry tile ,heat up to 450 or above and put the pizza on. Just remember it cooks faster on the grill than in your oven. I did one last Friday. It was done in about 4 1/2 minutes. I also use a pizza screen. It's convenient and if sprayed with oil before hand allows the pizza to slip right off onto a pan or other surface

J Rector
05-19-2009, 03:19 AM
I should have never read this post i feel the urge coming on . Now if I can get employed to buy the ingredients..

Shelly
05-19-2009, 04:18 AM
Just a heads up re pizza on the grill. I have a Napoleon grill, gets very hot and has a lot of headroom. What this means is that the grill surface gets superheated, but the area just above it (when blocked by food) does not -- it's hotter higher up.

First time I tried to grill a pizza on a pizza stone, the bottom charred to a crisp in about 1 minute, topping was not cooked. Second time, I backed off on the heat, and the bottom charred in 3 minutes, topping not cooked. Solution was to raise the stone on tin cans.

Elsie D.
05-19-2009, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by paul h:
J, now that the weather has gotten better I cook all my pizzas on the gas grill outside. I put down some unglazed quarry tile ,heat up to 450 or above and put the pizza on. Just remember it cooks faster on the grill than in your oven. I did one last Friday. It was done in about 4 1/2 minutes. I also use a pizza screen. It's convenient and if sprayed with oil before hand allows the pizza to slip right off onto a pan or other surface

What is a pizza screen?

Paul H
05-19-2009, 04:58 PM
Elsie, It's sort of like that pizza pan on Tom F's post. Here is a link to a small sample
http://www.webstaurantstore.co...0/pizza-screens.html (http://www.webstaurantstore.com/fourth1070/pizza-screens.html)

They come in all sizes. I have two. One 18" and one 16". They allow the heat to circulate and cook the pizza dough all the way through

Paul H
05-19-2009, 05:02 PM
Shelly, you are absolutely right about the toppings. Been toying with two possible solutions. One is to precook all toppings. The other is to build my own little brick enclosure with real brick for the sides and use the top grate of the grill as the top . I would put some quarry tile on the top grate to reflect the heat back down.

K Kruger
05-19-2009, 05:29 PM
I've been doing the former for years. Even in my oven and even in commercial pizza ovens and wood-fired ovens. Very few exceptions: tomatoes (unless I'm using roasted or smoked ones, tender greens (but I bleed them first), and maybe the odd this or that I can't think of at the moment, but, imo, the flavors are much better if most items are cooked (fully caramelized, partially so; fully cooked, partially so) first.

Paul H
05-20-2009, 02:31 AM
Kevin, have a dough cold fermenting in the refrigerator as we speak. Will try your method this Friday night. The only thing that didn't cook last time were the mushrooms which went on raw. I precook the green peppers and onions in the microwave to not only cook them but reduce the fluid they would leave on the crust

Elsie D.
05-20-2009, 05:06 AM
Thanks, Paul. I actually have one of these things.

K Kruger
05-20-2009, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by paul h:
Kevin, have a dough cold fermenting in the refrigerator as we speak. Will try your method this Friday night. The only thing that didn't cook last time were the mushrooms which went on raw. I precook the green peppers and onions in the microwave to not only cook them but reduce the fluid they would leave on the crust I want to reduce the water as well but I either sauté or grill because I also want some caramelization for most things, especially onions. (Sometimes I will caramelize onions fully--terrific on something like pizza with smoked duck, caramelized onion, portobellos, and kale.)

Mushrooms I sauté. Thin-sliced mushrooms often just get dry and lack flavor added directly, imo. Thicker slices fare better. But you can really draw out their flavor by sautéing them, sluced thick, in a butter-evoo combo, in a single layer, uncrowded, till they release their water, the water evaporates and they brown on one side. Then I flip them, add a splash of white wine and a tad more butter and let them go just till the wine is about gone. The fats will replace some of the evap'd water (keeoing them juicy), the wine will broaden the flavor, and the browning will add depth. Give this a shot sometime.

Paul H
05-21-2009, 04:36 AM
Kevin, that sounds a heck of a lot better than my old microwave plus I bet it tastes great on the pizza

r benash
05-21-2009, 05:58 PM
Made these the first week of May. Son was coming home from college. He remembered the last ones I made and asked for more. I always precook ingredients helps remove water and I like things like veggies carmelized a little.

Thanks again Bryan. The barbecued chicken was a special order from my son. Came out really good. I had some that I had grilled which I cubed and mixed into a sauce that he taste tested for me to match what he was used to.

These were all at the 14 day mark in the ferment.

Barbecued Chicken Red Onion
Red Onion and Mushroom
Sweet Pepper Red Onion and Mushroom
Sweet Pepper and sliced Provolone which is one of my favorites.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/rbenash/Cooking/Pizza%202/Pizza040509001.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/rbenash/Cooking/Pizza%202/Pizza040509003.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/rbenash/Cooking/Pizza%202/Pizza040509005.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/rbenash/Cooking/Pizza%202/Pizza040509007.jpg

Bryan S
05-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Ray, Those pies look freaking fantastic, great job man! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Tom Ferguson
05-29-2009, 08:47 PM
1st Pizza...

Good crust... Bryan's recipe with no changes. Could have cooked for a bit longer, but not much. Crunch was good. I don't like really crispy pizzas.

This is a good start for me. I'm stoked!! This one had commercial sauce, pepperoni, carmelized onions, mozzarella, and Japs. Really tasty, but as others have said, it's all about the crust.

http://www.grumpygator.com/images/1stpizza.jpg

Bryan S
06-01-2009, 04:47 PM
Great looking pie Tom, looks mighty fine too me. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Tom Ferguson
06-01-2009, 06:32 PM
Thanks Bryan... working on getting the crust a little browner next time.

The taste of the crust is really amazing. Who would think that crust could be the "star" of pizza?

I'm afraid I'm hooked... and since nobody delivers pizza in my area, I'm doing the happy dance...

Paul H
06-02-2009, 02:59 AM
Got a question concerning baking pizza dough on a gas grill. Been using quarry tiles layed down on the bottom grate. Trying to cook around 450. Lately, it seems that the center of the pizza crust is cooking faster than the outside edge. This doesn't happen in my oven. Is there something I'm doing wrong???? http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Paul K
06-02-2009, 05:42 AM
Lately, it seems that the center of the pizza crust is cooking faster than the outside edge.

That seems odd... What's the burner configuration under those tiles? Are all jets cleared out? Also, is your dough rolled or worked out evenly, not too thin in the center?

Paul

Tim C
09-09-2009, 01:23 AM
we made some pizza using frozen dough that they use at sams and it was really good. we wanna try this dough but we dont have a mixer with a dough hook. can you use a hand held mixer or just mix by hand? thx

Rita Y
09-10-2009, 07:38 AM
Tim, the dough is too heavy to mix with a hand-held mixer. Here is how to do it by hand or in a food processor, if you have one.

Combine the flour, instant dry yeast (also called bread machine or quick-rising yeast) and salt in a large bowl. Stir in the water and mix as best you can with a wooden spoon until you get a very shaggy and somewhat dry-looking dough that is fairly evenly moistened. Place a sheet of lightly-oiled plastic wrap against the top of the dough in the bowl and cover it all with a towel. Let it stand for 20 minutes at room temperature. This will begin to rehydrate the flour and yeast and make it easier to knead.

Now you can either knead this dough by hand for about 5 to 10 minutes (pizza dough generally is not kneaded quite as thoroughly as bread doughs), or you can knead it in a food processor, if you have one:

To knead the dough in a food processor, depending on the size of the processor, cut the dough in half or quarters. Drop one portion of dough into the processor -- use the steel blade, not the plastic dough blade -- and process for 20 to 30 seconds, or just until the dough forms a smooth ball. Remove it from the processor and knead by hand briefly on a kitchen counter to cool it down. Set aside, covered. Repeat with each of the remaining portions of dough. Then hand-knead them all together for a minute or two and proceed with the recipe.

Rita

Paul K
09-10-2009, 11:45 AM
Tim,

Rita's right about the hand mixer. If you happen to have a bread machine you can mix dough with that also. That's what I've been using for the past year and it works pretty well.

Paul

Tim C
09-10-2009, 05:22 PM
thanks rita and paul. we're waiting on a replacement bowl for the processor. i think we still have an old bread machine. that will keep us going til we can get a nice mixer

Paul H
09-11-2009, 07:23 AM
Tim, let us know how your pizza comes out with pics of course.Doing one tonight on the grill. Looking forward to it

Claude M
09-24-2009, 02:46 PM
really stupid question here

Ceresota AP Flour (100%) 24.56 oz
Water (62%) 15.22 oz
IDY (0.33%) 0.76 tsp.
Salt (2%) 2.5 tsp
100% 62% .33% 2% of what?

Doug D
09-24-2009, 03:07 PM
When expressing the make up of a dough using baker's percentages, the weight of the flour component is expressed as "100%", and the weights of the other components as percentages relative to the flour. So, by weight, the water equals 62% of the weight of the flour (15.22/24.56 = .6197), and so on.

Clint
04-11-2010, 07:49 AM
for those of you who are cooking it on a 22" kettle: are you just throwing the screen/stone on the grate?

Last night I did my first pizza on the kettle but it was from papa murphys, not made from the crust here.

used about 1.5 chimneys of K, put the 18" wsm fire ring on the grate, my stone on top of that, & then added the rotisserie ring to raise the lid.

I let it pre-heat for ~35 minutes @ 525F. around 8 minutes in the cardboard tray that the pizza came on started smoking & the bottom of the crust was done but the cheese hadn't browned but was melted so I put the za straight on the stone for another 2.5 minutes & pulled it off. Crust was burnt but edible (barely).

I went through all the pages in this thread & no one said anything about a kettle, only ovens so I was hoping for charcoal pointers.

K Kruger
04-11-2010, 08:52 AM
Yes, many put the stone on the grate; others fashion the dough on the screen then put that on the grate. I use neither a stone or screen - the dough goes on the grate directly, gets cooked one side, is flipped and quickly topped, then alowed to finish. It's pretty quick.

Paul H
04-12-2010, 01:43 AM
Clint, don't think Papa Murphy's pizza is supposed to be cooked at that high a temp. Not bad pizza though. Still like my own dough much better. Been using the quick method lately for making the dough and the wife seems to like it as much as the long fermented dough.

Paul K
04-12-2010, 09:53 AM
Clint,


the bottom of the crust was done but the cheese hadn't browned

Your temp looks good so I would recommend raising the pizza up a bit. Bryan S. gave me excellent advice when I had the same problem. Since you can use the rotisserie ring, you might try putting the stone on top of a few bricks. Moving the pizza up is the solution.

Paul

Bryan S
06-13-2010, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Paul K:
Clint,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> the bottom of the crust was done but the cheese hadn't browned

Your temp looks good so I would recommend raising the pizza up a bit. Bryan S. gave me excellent advice when I had the same problem. Since you can use the rotisserie ring, you might try putting the stone on top of a few bricks. Moving the pizza up is the solution.

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct, raise the pie up to get the reflective heating from the inside of the lid. You might want to clean the inside of the lid to get more reflective heating from the lid. In an oven, you just move the oven rack to get the right bottom and top heat so the pie finishes top and bottom at the same time. HTH

Mike U
01-01-2012, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Doug D:
When expressing the make up of a dough using baker's percentages, the weight of the flour component is expressed as "100%", and the weights of the other components as percentages relative to the flour. So, by weight, the water equals 62% of the weight of the flour (15.22/24.56 = .6197), and so on.

another stupid question here.
Is 15.22oz of water by volume or also be weight?

Thanks.

Rita Y
01-01-2012, 08:29 AM
If you are calculating according to bakers' percentages, 15.22 oz (431.5 g) is by weight. 1 cup water = 8.4 oz / 237 g of weight or 8.0 fluid ounces (volume).

Rita

Mike U
01-01-2012, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Rita Y:
If you are calculating according to bakers' percentages, 15.22 oz (431.5 g) is by weight. 1 cup water = 8.4 oz / 237 g of weight or 8.0 fluid ounces (volume).

Rita
Thanks Rita. This is my first foray into baker's percentages. Someone posted earlier that 1 cup of flour was somewhere around 3-4 oz. So the total flour is going to be somewhere between 6-8 cups with around 1 cup of water? Just want to make sure I've got this right.

Rita Y
01-01-2012, 09:05 AM
Mike, the flour weight you mention is a bit low. We're walking out the door and I'll try to reply when we get back in 4 or 5 hours.

------------

I'm back. About flour in baking: generally, to measure white flour for cakes and pastries, the flour is stirred in its container and lightly spooned into a measuring cup, which would result in flour that is 4 to 4 1/2 ounces per cup. For bread making, however, the flour is often scooped out of the container, with or without stirring, and leveled off (no shaking). Most bread recipes that I've used give a good result using the measurement of 1 cup white flour = 4.8 ounces / 137 g. (1.0 oz = 28.3495 g) I've checked several books that give weights and the average is pretty close to that. Many people use 5 ounces per cup but that's a little on the heavy side.

I would encourage you to use weights in pizza-making and baking for consistency and speed of measuring your ingredients. Be sure to take notes of the weights you use for any future adjustments that you want to make.

So if the recipe calls for 24.56 oz (696 g) of white flour, it would be close to 5 cups flour.

Rita