Pork butt Tamales


 

Erik G

TVWBB Pro
I'll be smoking two pork butts for a friends mom who will be using it for tamales on Monday, Dec. 24th.

Can someone please give me a good dry rub recipe that I can use that will be appropriate for tamales. I want something that she can use for tradtional mexican tamales.

Isn't the pork filling in tamales typically made in some sauce? So therefore, should I throw it in some sauce after I smoke it and cook for awhile? Since she needs this around 9am Monday morning, I am thinking I should complete it by Sunday, throw it in the frig and on Monday morning simmer it in some sauce? Or should I should just forget the sauce?

I am assuming I should bring the temp. up to something similar to pulled pork, is this correct, so around 195 degrees or so?

Lastly, I just scored some green apricot, peach, lemon, cherry, apple, pistachio, plum wood and some dry apricot, oak and alder wood. Which should I use and how much? Thanks.

Erik
 
Erik,

I could be wrong here but...as a HUGE tamale lover I've researched them a lot (and tried to make them once) and I think most of the pork they use is braised for the whole cooking time. I have absoltely no idea as far as recipes go (though I'm sure the net has tons) but I know exactly what you mean when you refer to meat cooked in a sauce...the sort of moist, sticky quality the meat fillings have. Nothing better, especially when purchased off the street by some old lady hauling around a cooler full
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The pork is braised, as Phil notes, either in spiced and herbed water (with a chile-based sauce, sometimes including tomato, mixed into the shredded pork just before making the tamales), or in a chile-based braising liquid. Don't forget the sauce.

You can easily make a chile sauce to add to the pork after it is pulled. The sauce, made and cooled, is added to the cooled shredded pork. No need to heat the pork in the sauce as tamales are easiest to make if the filling is no warmer than room temp, tops.

Do you have whole dried chilies on hand? You'll need about 6-8 ounces of guajillos and/or anchos and/or cascabels, New Mexicos or pasillas. I'd be happy to write you a recipe. With tomato or without.

I'd suggest using half the wood you'd normally use for butts, mostly a fruit wood (like plum) plus a little oak.
 
Phil, surprising enough, there are not a whole lot of recipes online for smoking pork butt to use in tamales. I have found one that sounds pretty good.

Kevin, I do have whole dried chiles but I am not sure what kind they are. It's at my other house so I'll let you know once I find out. Can you please give me a dry rub I can use for the pork. Also a recipe with and without tomatos for the sauce would be much appreciated. Please keep in mind this is a very traditonal mexican family when you think of the recipe. I'll be smoking two pork butts. Lastly, would green plum wood be ok to use? Thank you. Below is a recipe I found online that sounds good.

4 cups pulled pork
1 medium onion, chopped
2/3 cup stock
3 cloves garlic, minced
2 tablespoons tomato paste
2 teaspoons cumin powder
1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon chili powder
1 teaspoon oregano
1/2 teaspoon fennel
 
Ok so this is just an idea. Please don't anybody laugh.
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What if the butt was Qed up to about 150 or 160...enough to get good smoke flavor, some bark, etc. etc. Then, put it in a pot and braise it (with spices) up to pulling temp (~190-195)? I know it sounds weird but hey, why couldn't it work? We could call it "smoke braised".
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Phil, I was actually thinking about doing that but honestly, this is becoming a pain in the ---already. Especially with me having to do other stuff for the holidays, I want it as simmple as possible. I am digging Kevin's idea of just making the sauce seperate and mixing it together at the end.

Kevin, I looked at the packaging and it just said dried peppers. They're real skinny red peppers, about 2 inches long. If I was a gambling man, I would bet they're chile de arbol. If you prefer me using another pepper(s), let me know, I can always buy some and possibly use it at a later date, hopefully.

Erik
 
Phil-- I smoke/braise butt--and chuck--quite often. It's an excellent cooking method and works well for pork for tamales and many other things.

Erik-- Sounds like chiles de arbol to me too. You'll need others as they will be too hot used alone. Grab some anchos and guajillos or pasillas.

Smoking and then braising right back in the WSM is easy and much quicker. I'll give you a method for that, a rub for if you smoke conventionally, and a couple sauce options. Nearly every sauce I make for pork tamales is traditional, no worries there, though there are many used and they do vary--but only somewhat. I have nothing written that I can just copy and paste. But I'll get on it soon. Either will be easy to make so don't worry about it being involved. Anon.
 
Allright Kevin, sounds good. Much appreciated. I just picked up some Guajillo peppers and something that's called ancho/pasilla peppers. There's not a combination of the two inside the package but for some reason the packaging has it named that way. They definitely look like ancho peppers, not sure where they got the pasilla. And again, I either have chile de arbol or possibly japanese chile, not sure which one. So whenever you have the time, let me know the recipe for the dry rub and also the sauce. Keep in mind I only have two very small tomatoes and tomato paste (no sauce but I can always purchase whatever is needed). Also be specific with what kind of wood to use and if either dry or green. Thanks again.

Erik
 
Kevin, after mulling over the idea, I think I should smoke the butts to 195 and mix it with the sauce after pulling the meat. My reason is that I bought a 17.5 lb twin pack pork butt and I would like to remove all the fat (well most of it) before putting it inside the sauce, and also I am afraid it might be way too much meat. This way I can make sandwiches with left over meat. Just an idea, let me know what you think. If you think the other way of braising it in the WSM is well worth it, I wouldn't mind making tacos with left over meat. I just need this filling to be damn good. Thanks.

Erik
 
Gary, unfortunately, I do not have a meat grinder. I am not so much concerned about the texture as I am depth, flavor and authenticity. I believe my friends mom will be making the tamales for church so I definitely do not want to disappoint.

Kevin, everything ok there? You're making me sweat a tad since I need this dry rub early morning tomorrow, around 8am PST and the sauce about 8 hours afterwards.

Erik
 
So sorry. All of a sudden a dinner to cook came up last night.

Dry wood. Less than a handful of wood total.

Simple dry rub:

1/4 c ground mild chile or paprika

2 T granulated onion

2 T granulated garlic

2 T thyme

2 T black pepper

2 T sugar

2 t rubbed sage OR ground bay leaf (the latter, preferably)

2 t marjoram

1 t ground cumin


Salt the butts generously and let the salt draw moisture to the surface while you mix the rub. Apply the rub over the salt.



You'll have a lot of meat doing two, likely. Go with your smoke-to-195 plan this time. Note that you can foil the butts, though, to speed cooking, after they have cooked halfway or so.

I'll post this now and immediately hit the Edit key--and will keep doing that so that you can see what I am writing sooner. I hope I am not too late.

Pork for tamales is either shredded, chopped or, as Gary notes, ground, though not so finely as to be mush--there needs to be texture so, if grinding, use a processor and pulse briefly. All are traditional approaches, left to the cook's preference.

********************

Note that in all cases I prefer to toast the chilies first to enhance their flavor. Though I suggest this and it doesn't take long, you can skip the step if you wish to save a little time.


Tamale sauce #1:

12 (or so) ancho peppers

4-6 guajillo peppers (or 2-3 more anchos)

1-2 cascabel peppers or chiles de arbol (optional)

2 T black peppercorns

2 T whole cumin seed

4 cloves garlic, peeled

1-2 cups pork or chicken stock


In a dry skillet over med-high heat, toast the chilies, a few at a time, till fragrant, pressing them onto the pan's surface with a spatula briefly, then immediately flipping, 45-60 seconds total. Remove to a saucepan; repeat with the remaining chilies. Leave the skillet on the heat.

Cover the toasted chilies with hot water, bring to a boil over high heat, covered, then simmer till the chiles are softened, 5-7 min or so. Meanwhile, toast the peppercorns and cumin seeds in the skillet you used for the peppers, till very fragrant and toasted, about 30-45 seconds. Pour into a blender, pulsing briefly a few times to grind coarsely. Add the garlic cloves, pulse a few times to chop.

When the peppers are soft drain them. When cool enough to handle (rinse briefly in cold water to cool quicker if you wish), remove the stems, if present, and most of the seeds (a few seeds here and there are not a big deal). Add the peppers to the blender and some of the stock. Blend, adding more stock as necessary to make a sauce the consistency of tomato soup. Remove and reserve.

After the pork is shredded, chopped or ground, place it in a large bowl or pot. Fold the sauce into the pork. Use enough to moisten the pork well. Add more chicken stock if you've used all the sauce and the pork is still on the dry side. Taste for salt.

(Note that you can use already ground spices instead of the whole ones, if you wish.)

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Tamale sauce #2:


10 (or so) ancho peppers

2-3 guajillo peppers (or 1-2 more anchos)

1-2 cascabel peppers or chiles de arbol (optional)

2 tomatoes

2 bay leaves

1 t black peppercorns

2 t whole cumin seed

4 cloves garlic, peeled

1 cup pork or chicken stock

1 c stock (saved from boiling the chilies and tomatoes)

2 T lard (or use shortening or neutral oil)

1.5 T flour


Toast the cumin and peppercorns; reserve on a plate. In the same dry skillet, next, toast the peppers, if desired, as noted above. Place in a pot with the bay leaves and add the tomatoes. Cover with water, bring to a boil over high heat, then simmer till softened. Reserve 1.5 c of the cooking water then drain the tomatoes and peppers. Discard bay leaves. Remove the stems from the chilies and most of the seeds.

Grind the toasted spices in a blender briefly, then add the garlic and chop in the blender briefly. Add a little salt. Put the chilies and tomatoes in the blender with about .5 c of the reserved cooking water and .5 c chicken or pork stock. Blend very well. Strain the contents of the blender into bowl, adding another .5 c each of the reserved water and the stock. Stir.

Heat the lard in your skillet. Add the flour and cook, stirring constantly, till the flour turns golden. Reduce the temp to med-low, then add the contents of the bowl, slowly whle whisking, to the pot. Bring to a slow simmer, then cook about 10-15 min, till the sauce mellows. Salt to taste, but go on the light side, as the pork has salt already on it. Cool.

Add the sauce to the pork when it's ready, adding a little more stock and reserved water, as needed and if needed, to moisten very well.

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Tamale sauce #3:


Chilies, in the quantities noted in #2, toasted if desired

2 t Mexican oregano

4 cloves garlic, peeled

2 c chicken stock or pork stock

2 T lard or vegetable oil

1.5 T flour


Bring a kettle of water to a boil. Place the toasted chilies in a bowl and cover with the boiling water. Alow to soak till softened. Discard water; stem and seed the chilies and place in a blender with the oregano and 2 cloves of the garlic. Add half the stock. Puree well then strain to a bowl. Stir in the remaining stock.

Heat the lard in a pan. Crush the remaining 2 garlic cloves and cook in the lard till lightly browned. Remove and discard the garlic. Add the flour and cook, stirring constantly, till golden. Reduce the heat then add the puree, carefully and whisking constantly. Simmer gently till the chile flavor mellows, about 10-15 min. Salt lightly, as noted above. Cool.

Fold into the pork, as noted above, adding a little more stock if necessary.
 
Kevin, thanks again for the recipe. I am assuming the dry rub is enough for two butts, correct? I can always multiple the ingredients to increase the tamale sauce, correct? By the way, which sauce is your favorite? It doesn't seem like the amount of sauce you mentioned in all 3 sauces is enough for two butts. I am thinking it's going to be way too much pork, so I might take the larger butt for the tamales and use the other one for the family to make sandwiches.

Erik
 
The dry rub will handle both butts. Remember to salt first. It is less than I would make for typical Q'd butts but an appropriate amount, imo, for butts for tamales.

You're right: it's a lot of pork. 2.5 lbs of pork is enough for about 4 dozen tamales if made conventionally (with 1.5-2 T filling per tamale). The recipes above will handle probably around 3-4 lbs (raw weight) of meat. Increase proportionally, depending on your desired quantity.

I like sauces that include the flour/roux/simmering step to mellow the sauce. I usually always include tomatoes, fresh, if possible (which I sometimes roast rather than boil). If fresh are not available I'll used canned diced. (I never use paste for anything.) I like mostly chilies--but some tomato soften the flavor and adds a nice fruity sweetness to the finish.
 
Kevin, after reading the different tamale sauces, I am going with Tamale sauce #2. I have a question though regarding the instructions. When I boil the tomatoes and bay leaves in water, do I include the toasted peppers AND toasted peppercorns and cumin seed, or just the toasted peppers by itself? THanks.

Erik
 
Sorry. I'll edit above as well.

Toast the peppers and place them in the pot with tomatoes and bay leaves. Cover with water and bring to a boil over high heat. Meanwhile, toast the cumin and peppercorns.
 
Thanks Kevin. I am sure someone else will follow your recipe so maybe you should edit the amount of stock saved from boiling the chilies and tomatoes. In the ingredient list you state 1 cup (which is correct), however in the directions you state 1.5 cups. Thanks so much.

Erik
 
The extra half cup is to use if needed, at the end, when possibly adding more of it (along with a little more stock), to fuly moisten the meat. I'll make that clearer though. THanks.
 
This is the one area that I let others take over. My SO's mother is about 100 years old and from Mexico, every year at Christmas they get together and make tamales; in fact, they did a batch today, around 25 dozen. They're soooo good. Never thought about smoking the pork for her. She doesn't have a recipe, does everything from memory. I've told my SO she needs to get her to write it down before she dies. She also does a cheese Jalapeño tamale that's to die for. We eat them for our Xmas eve meal with traditional Mexican side dishes.
 
Kevin, do you think it's an absolute must or even necessary to foil the pork before throwing it in the sauce?

Larry, the cheese jalapeno tamales are my absolute favorite. Damn they're soooooo good.

Erik
 

 

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