2nd Stoker Cook Issues - Any Ideas

Well I've got to say I'm pretty disappointed in my Stoker on this second cook. In fact if someone was to ask me whether to purchase a Stoker or a DigiQ II, 13 hours into this smoke I'd have to tell them get the DigiQ II.

Just like my last cook I had to "wake-up" the stoker. What I mean by this is I'd been running her with the top vent 100% open, she was maintaining 230s without any blower action. she'd been running in the 230s and rising (no fan action) at all (SEE GRAPH) so around 2:30 a.m. (yep, I have a automatic draft control system and I'm babysitting this piece of S*&# at 2:30 a.m.) I close vents to 60% open. I watch the temp drop on my Stokerlog, dropping, dropping, dropping past the 225 setting I have my Stoker to maintain. Blower never comes on. Having had this happen last time I adjust the pit temp from 225 to 224 (when temp had reached 219) and the blower comes back on. What the hell? As I said this is not the first time I've had to do this, I believe I had to do the same thing twice on first Stoker cook.

Next issue, so around 7:30 a.m. (ish) I look at my Stokerlog and notice it's not logging anything. I try to get data from stoker and nothing, I try to connect to the stoker via a web browser using the IP, nothing, I try again, again and again, nothing. So I check my wireless bridge. No problem, I can connect to her, open her admin tools, she's running like a champ. So I go outside and look at the Stoker display, she's glazed over, totally blank!! So I power her down for 60 seconds, turn her back on, reset everything up, come back in and I can connect to her again. ***?

OK, just as I was writing this message I had to "wake" the Stoker up again by adjusting the pit temp by one degree. This is ridiculous, why the hell did I buy this thing if the fan isn't going to come on without me adjusting the temp one degree? I bought this so I wouldn't have to babysit.

Honestly guys, I can control my temps better than this thing with my clay saucer.

Here's are some more GRAPHS from after I had to reboot the Stoker. Also here are some PICTURES from my cook.

Sorry to ***** guys, I know there are many out there who love their Stokers and I'd love to also, but I've got to be honest with you, I've seen a buddy of mine who is a new DigiQ II user use his system now twice, and it's pretty much set it and forget it and it is rock solid on 225 the entire cook. Also I'm a bit peeved as I bought this so I could sleep through night and last night I didn't get much sleep as I was stressed out and kept looking over at my laptop on my nightstand.

Thanks for listening and I hope someone out there has some ideas.

Go Giants!

It can be frustrating I am sure to run into what you have.

Let me start by saying that I think there are rare situations where the stoker will do as you experienced. However, they are very rare. And if we can figure out how to duplicate them, we can have them fix it or I can put a work-around in my program.

Now a question for you. When you adjusted the vent to 60%, how far did you let the temp drop below target?

Wow, what a bummer. I understand your frustration and I'd be more than pixxed if I were you. With your display glazing over however, I'd have to say you have a brand new problem that could only be cured by having the unit replaced unless there was a power glitch on the line.

The # 3 pic shows a familiar situation. I think you are running into that same software glitch I mentioned some time ago and that is in the logic of the stoker. If the temp has been above the set point for a long time, when it finally does drop down, it does nothing for a long time. I saw what was happening to mine when it happened and took corrective measures, but I shouldn't have to. In fact I found that if I waited long enough, it would kick in, but only after the temp had dropped to >5° below set point. It's a little hard to read that graph, but I think it would have kicked in before disaster occurred.

I think I'll add special notifications on my timers software to make me aware if communications is ever lost for more than 5 minutes. Would that help?

Ken

Hey Amir, yes, I would agree with you that based on the threads I've read my experience is "rare." Pit temp was set at 225, at 219 I changed the pit temp to 224 and it woke her up and the fan came on. This change was made directly to the Stoker using it's web interface. As I mentioned it happened again while typing my post; this time I woke her up using Stokerlog.

When this happened on my initial cook, I had opened the lid to baste and the temp spiked around 275ish then dropped down to say 10 degrees below set pit of 225. Someone else had mentioned they had seen this behavior on such a severe spike before.

I do not think these issues are Stokerlog, rather the Stoker. For instance, I don't think Stokerlog would cause my Stoker to "glaze over" and require a reboot.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

Go Giants!

BTW, the meat looks totally inedible. Please freeze it and send it my house for further examination and testing.

I think I'll add special notifications on my timers software to make me aware if communications is ever lost for more than 5 minutes. Would that help?

Click to expand...

Yes, that would be a great feature!

Sorry to hear about your fustrations with the stoker. Ive had mine for about 2.5 months with only one problem but it wasn't the stokers fault.

This is how i use mine. I don't use a wireless bridge but i do have it tied into my network using a network cable. The top vent is about 1/4 open (never play with this). I use a clay saucer covered with foil. Start smoker with minion method with hot coals near blower side. My temps are solid and works as advertised for me.

Think its kind of weird that your smoker can maintain temps with hardly any fan use. Mine cycles pretty regular during an entire cook. If the fan didn't come on mine i'm pretty sure mine would drop in temp pretty fast.

It's note an answer to why your blower isn't coming on but maybe you have an air leak somewhere or its because of your top vents being open too much.

BTW, the problem i had was because i use extension cables with my stoker. I leave my stoker inside the house with the cables runing out to the probes and fan. You can't run the blower and the temps probes on the same wire. Everytime the blower came on it lowered the temp reading for some reason. I just ran a seperate wire for the blower and everything it fine.

Kenny

Larry there are a lot of variables at work here. Let's see if I can help with some of them...
1. Stoker set at 225, fire at 230s without any blower action - This is what the Stoker should be doing. The higher temperature is the result of your weber vents not adjusted correctly or you having air leaks in your weber. The Stoker can only lower temperatures by not having the fan run. If air is getting in by other means there is nothing the Stoker can do to compensate. You would have this issue with the DigiQ II too. One possible Stoker related air leak is if you have the Stoker fan mounted up-side-down. Please confirm that you have the Stoker fan mounted in the correct orientation and that the flap is closed when the fan isn't on.

2. Stoker dropped past the 225 degree setting - you don't say how far past 225 it went (oops just saw you mentioned 219). I have seen the temperature go past by 5 degrees before the fan kicks in. There is some time delayed feedback loop. My guess is the fan would have kicked on, but by resetting it to 224 you reset everything. Might not have been necessary. In addition you mentioned adjusting/setting items from the built-in Stoker web interface and Amir's program. I've always picked one interface or the other and suck with it for the entire cook. Not sure if switching back and forth can cause issues.

3. Logging App not logging anything - this could be so many issues. The game adapter could have lost connection (something I always fought with that adapter), Amir's app (which is a new release) could have a minor bug. I guess what I'm trying to point out is that there are a lot of non-Stoker variables. There is always the possibility that you got a bad Stoker too. My guess is that the screen going blank is a result of a bad Stoker or the external programs causing a freak bug.

Perhaps use your next cook (or mock cook) to see if your issues are related to the Stoker. Do a cook with just the Stoker, program the temps on the actual box and don't connect it to a network. See if you have similar issues.

BTW, your graphs look pretty good. Nice temperature control. I've only seen the oscillating shown at the end of your cook when fuel is starting to get low.

A., thanks for your assistance. I'll comment with the corresponding numbers below:

1) I agree with you here, I think I may have a bit of a draft somewhere in my WSM as she ran for quite along time without any assistance from the Stoker when the top vent was 100% open. However I feel this is a separate issue that I need to deal with and I don't feel it's contributing to the system "glazing over" or the fan not turning on when she drops under temp. Also, my only frame of reference here is how I've observed the DigiQ preform under similar circumstances.

2) 6 degree drop on this cook and I went back to my first cook and the drop was between 12 - 15 degrees before I manually "woke" her up. The reason I tried the Stoker log to "wake" it up the second time was to see if it netted the same result, thus eliminating the interface(s) as the problem.

3) Had same issues when I was hardwired on my first Stoker cook. In fact, when I accidentally disconnect my laptop from the router (pulled the cable out of my laptop Stokerlog alarmed me of this fact. No alarms today that connection with Stoker was lost. Also, I purchased another wireless bridge and chucked the wireless gaming adapter in the closet. Have tested the connection with the bridge the entire cook and when there were issues and she's been rock solid.

Lastly, I'm considering on my next cook using a clay saucer, don't know if it will hurt other than using more fuel and it might help stabilize things. Thoughts?

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

Go Giants!

I don't have the weber, but I recall that the door can be very leaky. I believe people have posted how to tighten up the various seals/joints on the weber.

What version of the Stoker firmware are you running? I believe most of us here are running the alpha version (Version 2.1.287) that can be found at Kaytat[/URL]http://www.kaytat.com/[/URL] website.

I'm using what came on the stoker - Version 2.0.259.

I do think I may be a bit drafty, however, on my first smoke to shut down I simply closed the top vent (didn't remove stoker) came back two hours later and the fire was out and the WSM was cold enough to take a part and remove charcoal to a tin bucket. There were a couple of pieces that were still smoldering but for the most part she was out.

Also, I'm running Stokerlog v. 4.1

The clay platter will not cause you to use more fuel, it just buffers the temp spikes, catch the drippings, which cause flare ups, and eliminates the hard crust on the bottom of the meat. It looks like, according to the chart you send a 5-6 degree drop before the fan kicked in, but I may be wrong. Your log file will say for sure how low it dropped below your set temperature.

I can remember in the past the connection lost alarm on Amir's program, I can also remember it not going off in certain circumstances. I'd have to do some testing on that to tell for sure what to expect.

I'm about 10° away from turning mine off so I'll let you know what happens if I just unplug it.


Stoker version 2.0.259

Ken

Thanks Ken, I appreciate the help . . . from everyone here! As always it will be paid forward, this is making for some good information for my little guide I'm writing.

To make matters worse, SO's son came to me about 2 hours ago because his laptop started smoking, lovely. Just got off the phone with Gateway and they said, "that doesn't sound good, it shouldn't do that." LOL, no kidding, it shouldn't smoke huh? All in a days work I suppose.

Regarding my butts for the game, they're only at 167.5 . . . I really hope the break out and make a mad dash for the finish-line.

I just pulled mine, they are setting in foil as we speak. I actually pulled them at 187. They'll finish off nicely in my 5 day cooler. As promised, before I pulled my butts, I turned off the Stoker. I got no alarm at all. So.... I'll be working on mine tomorrow evening and Amir is working on his as well. If you'd like see a really beautiful cook chart, click here. Super Bowl Butts

Ken, you're going to laugh when you see my final graph, it's honestly comical (sp?). I'm 20 1/2 hours into my butt cook and I'm only at 178.5. I think I'm trading in my stoker for another clay saucer, LOL.

Originally posted by LarryR:
I think I'm trading in my stoker for another clay saucer, LOL.

Click to expand...

I'll buy the saucer for you if you decide to follow through

Seriously though, I've found my Stoker to be very reliable. I do think one of the keys is to keep that top vent down to 25%. Let the fan do the work. In a regular cook, it should be pulsing on a regular basis. I use lump charcoal, and startup with a propane torch and light a few pieces closest to the fan, then let the fan handle it from there. I do leave the top vent open 100% on the initial startup, but by 190-200, I close it down to 25%.

With over a dozen wireless access points/routers in the neighboring houses, I only use a wired connection. Also, I don't know all the details of the logic in the Stoker programming, but it would make sense to me that if it had a prolonged period above the set point temp, and a long period getting the temp down, it would wait for a several degree drop below the setpoint before applying the fan again for fear of overshooting again.


To Kenny, I run a total of 5 probes(3 food, 1 pit, 1 fan) on one homemade extension cable and haven't had problems with temp probes dropping when the fan kicks on.

With over a dozen wireless access points/routers in the neighboring houses, I only use a wired connection. Also, I don't know all the details of the logic in the Stoker programming, but it would make sense to me that if it had a prolonged period above the set point temp, and a long period getting the temp down, it would wait for a several degree drop below the setpoint before applying the fan again for fear of overshooting again.

Click to expand...

The one thing that appears to be working well in my setup is my wireless bridge.

I guess the question is, what is a reasonable/acceptable drop in temps below your target temp. prior to you deciding you need to "wake" your Stoker up due to the Stoker not triggering the fan? What if you're not around and it never comes back on and your fire dies? I honestly believe based on how my Stoker has preformed I don't know if she would ever have come on. I waited 5, 10, 17 degrees below my target temp prior to taking action. Also, why then the over shooting of temps when she finally does come on? For instance, this afternoon I had my target temp set at 235. Temp dropped to 220 and still no blower coming on, so I use the Stoker interface to change the target temp to 234. I hit save, fan comes on and Stoker over-shoots my 234 temp by a minimum of 7 - 10 degrees. From what I've heard this is not normal (see Kens graph above) and based on how I've seen Ed C's DigiQ II preform it's not consistent with how Automatic Draft Control Systems should run. Ed C. and I basically have the same exact same setup, start our fires the same down to the same amount of lit,, use the same charcoal, close to the same amount of cold meat, same water pan setup and this cook even used the same wood from the same tree. Very different temperature control though. I hope no one takes this as a Stoker vs. Digi as I'm not trying to make it this, it's just my only frame of first hand reference. I still firmly believe that if you're looking for the extra bells and whistles of a web interface, Ken's program and Amirs system Stoker is the way to go.

So guys where do I go from here? Do I contact Stoker and let them know that I may have a bad unit? Do I try another cook this time with a clay saucer? Where do we go from here?

Thanks.

I certainly think it makes sense to send an email to Rock and see if there is any explanation for how the logic operates (or doesn't?) on determining when to turn the fan back on. Might also be interesting to see if this is something that only happens when the Stoker is being connected via a telnet interface like Amir's program. Might consider a cook just using the included web interface instead. Not suggesting at all that Amir's program would be the issue, but perhaps a bug with the Stoker itself with the telnet interface?

I was at Larry's today and see what it is that he is talking about. The damn unit was set at 235. When the temp at the grate got to 235 it would eclipse that temp and got to 245 and even higher. The fan wouldn't come back on until it hit 219 which was 16 degrees below the target temp. We tried adjusting the top vents to see where she would work best and there was no happy medium. With the top vent shut down she would spike all the way up to 250 then shut down to 219. This unit was all over the board, it almost looked like someone with a heart condition. We continued to monitor the temps and it would change on the computer side without changing anything at all. What I mean by that is the pit temp would change on the Stoker log to 32* and we had it set for 245*. There is no reason for this temp chanege. We beleive that this is due to a bad unit. I recommended to Larry that he sends the unit back to Stoker and gets a new one.
If I had to advise someone to buy a power draft unit it would not be a Stoker based on what I saw tonight. But in all fairness to the Stoker unit, I believe that Larry just got a bad unit. It just would not perform as advertised. If the unit went below the target temp the fan would come on and go way above the target temp.In other words when he set it for 235* it would spike to 255 then come down to as low as 219* before the fan would come back on, but he temp would climb back up to 245 before the fan would stop blowing. I have seen where other Stoker users have not experienced this type of flucuation and have been able to maintain a solid cooking temp throughout the cook. If I had not been there my self to see the wide spread temp difference I would not have believed it. I can only hope that the people from Stoker can retify this situation for Larry R.

Larry,
How are you running your probes into your smoker? Via eyelets, or is it possible they are being pinched by the lid?


Amir,
I'm not a programmer, and it is past my bedtime, so humor me with this question. When your logger program is communicating with the Stoker, I'm assuming there is something similar to a port open command, query the data, or set the data on the Stoker, then close the port? What would happen if the port didn't close? Is it possible the Stoker would just sit there waiting for more commands or the close? Just wondering if that might be a scenario where you could get a situation like the temp falling below the setpoint with no fan action? At the risk of further embarassing myself, I'll head to bed now