Food safety question...
- Thread starter Kris Auer
- Start date
Jamie Berry
TVWBB Fan
I know i've kept pulled pork longer in the fridge and eaten it without issues but to be safe you should probably freeze it. You'll definately want to pull it before freezing and use a vaccum sealer if you have one.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
The absolute operative issue is cooling the meat fairly quickly after it rests, or after pulling it and before packing it for storage.
For best quality, I'd freeze. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What are the best ways to cool that much meat quickly?
The absolute operative issue is cooling the meat fairly quickly after it rests, or after pulling it and before packing it for storage.
For best quality, I'd freeze. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What are the best ways to cool that much meat quickly?
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
As long as the meat is cooled correctly before packing then fridged for several days - or, frozen, obviously - is fine. There are no safety issues to be concerned about. After a few days it becomes a quality issue. Cooling relatively quickly and storing properly helps to minimize quality problems as well. But over 3 or 4 days I prefer to freeze. (I haven't always been able to do so and have not had quality problems but they can occur.)
If you would prefer not even the possibility of freezing than you need to cook within two or three days of serving. Still, the meat must be cooled relatively quickly regardless. It is (especially) the handling of warm or hot food and the packing of it for storage in the fridge or freezer that sets the stage for safety problems.
If you would prefer not even the possibility of freezing than you need to cook within two or three days of serving. Still, the meat must be cooled relatively quickly regardless. It is (especially) the handling of warm or hot food and the packing of it for storage in the fridge or freezer that sets the stage for safety problems.
Lou Tarnay
TVWBB Fan
I would pull and freeze the pulled product in vacuum freezer bags. If you boil the bags untill the product is heated through just prior to serving, you won't be able to tell the difference from new out of the smoker.
Cheers
Lou
Cheers
Lou
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I'm with you. Properly cooled then frozen leaves little time for spoilage bacteria growth. They're the ones responsible for off-tastes and odors.
I like to add a little finishing sauce while pulling. (I use this.) This evens texture, moisture and flavor and, if cold, will help to cool the pork when mixed in. Packed fairly thinly, and flat, in vac bags, they freeze fairly quickly if one doesn't stack them till frozen, then one can stack to save space. Dropped into a large pot of boiling water (or a couple or three if doing a lot), one only needs to keep the heat on for several minutes then one can simply cover the pot and shut it off. 20 or so later the pork is serving-temp hot.
I find it as flavorful as just made, except for the bark texture, but that is a small price to pay. A good sauce or two on the side and I'm good to go.
I like to add a little finishing sauce while pulling. (I use this.) This evens texture, moisture and flavor and, if cold, will help to cool the pork when mixed in. Packed fairly thinly, and flat, in vac bags, they freeze fairly quickly if one doesn't stack them till frozen, then one can stack to save space. Dropped into a large pot of boiling water (or a couple or three if doing a lot), one only needs to keep the heat on for several minutes then one can simply cover the pot and shut it off. 20 or so later the pork is serving-temp hot.
I find it as flavorful as just made, except for the bark texture, but that is a small price to pay. A good sauce or two on the side and I'm good to go.
Mike Carter
New member
I'm going to be getting into this situation this weekend. Will be smoking 18lbs of butts tomorrow for dinner next weekend. Planned on smoking, pulling, vacuum sealing, freezing, reheating in boiling water, serving.
My question is about getting the meat cooled properly. I've read the information above and was wondering if after I pulled and vacuum sealed if I could go straight into the freezer of if I needed to still cool it down quickly before going into the freezer? If I need to cool it quickly after vacuum sealing, can I just throw them in a cooler filled with ice water? If so, how long do they need to stay in there before going to the freezer?
My question is about getting the meat cooled properly. I've read the information above and was wondering if after I pulled and vacuum sealed if I could go straight into the freezer of if I needed to still cool it down quickly before going into the freezer? If I need to cool it quickly after vacuum sealing, can I just throw them in a cooler filled with ice water? If so, how long do they need to stay in there before going to the freezer?
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
The pork cannot be vac'd warm or hot and be counted on to cool effectively in the fridge or freezer. You can:
Pull the pork and cool it spread on pans; do the same but chill the pans first; place the pulled pork in vac bags or Ziplocs - leaving the tops open, not sealed - and plunge into ice water, keeping the bags' openings above the water level. (The easiest way to do this is to use plenty of ice and do a few bags at once in a container just large enough to hold them - lots of ice helps keep them upright. Barring that, you can also clip the tops of the bags to the side of the container to keep them up. Keeping the bags tops open leaves the heat some place to go and cooling is quicker.)
The best way to pack bags for safety is to pack them so when flattened the pork is no more than one-inch thick. If you do that you only need to reduce the pork temp to <70?F. Then you can vac and fridge or freeze - but don't stack them yet or they will keep each other warm; spread them out till cold.
If needing to pack thicker, or if you're doing so many bags that it would overload the fridge's or freezer's ability to cool effectively, then the temps should be brought lower, to <55?F.
[One must assume that the meat will become contaminated with Staph. aureus, a ubiquitous pathogen that many people carry naturally on their skin (and also transmitted through coughs, sneezing, etc.) In prolonged warm conditions (such as from ineffective cooling) these bacteria outgrow and at critical mass form a toxin. Cooling the meat fairly quickly gets the temps down initially so that growth, if contaminated is slow. Further cooling to fridge or freezer temps arrests growth and the meat will remain safe. Of course, one must be sure to handle cooked foods on clean surfaces with clean utensils and hands, of course.]
Pull the pork and cool it spread on pans; do the same but chill the pans first; place the pulled pork in vac bags or Ziplocs - leaving the tops open, not sealed - and plunge into ice water, keeping the bags' openings above the water level. (The easiest way to do this is to use plenty of ice and do a few bags at once in a container just large enough to hold them - lots of ice helps keep them upright. Barring that, you can also clip the tops of the bags to the side of the container to keep them up. Keeping the bags tops open leaves the heat some place to go and cooling is quicker.)
The best way to pack bags for safety is to pack them so when flattened the pork is no more than one-inch thick. If you do that you only need to reduce the pork temp to <70?F. Then you can vac and fridge or freeze - but don't stack them yet or they will keep each other warm; spread them out till cold.
If needing to pack thicker, or if you're doing so many bags that it would overload the fridge's or freezer's ability to cool effectively, then the temps should be brought lower, to <55?F.
[One must assume that the meat will become contaminated with Staph. aureus, a ubiquitous pathogen that many people carry naturally on their skin (and also transmitted through coughs, sneezing, etc.) In prolonged warm conditions (such as from ineffective cooling) these bacteria outgrow and at critical mass form a toxin. Cooling the meat fairly quickly gets the temps down initially so that growth, if contaminated is slow. Further cooling to fridge or freezer temps arrests growth and the meat will remain safe. Of course, one must be sure to handle cooked foods on clean surfaces with clean utensils and hands, of course.]
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
Important reminders, and there's no excuses for procrastination with food safety.
For example, there's no point in putting off cooling and putting up one smoked butt if you know that the other one is plenty for the meal at hand. Take care of it NOW, not later.
For example, there's no point in putting off cooling and putting up one smoked butt if you know that the other one is plenty for the meal at hand. Take care of it NOW, not later.
Mike Carter
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Carter:
I'm going to be getting into this situation this weekend. Will be smoking 18lbs of butts tomorrow for dinner next weekend. Planned on smoking, pulling, vacuum sealing, freezing, reheating in boiling water, serving.
My question is about getting the meat cooled properly. I've read the information above and was wondering if after I pulled and vacuum sealed if I could go straight into the freezer of if I needed to still cool it down quickly before going into the freezer? If I need to cool it quickly after vacuum sealing, can I just throw them in a cooler filled with ice water? If so, how long do they need to stay in there before going to the freezer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you for the information. I will employ this technique for after my smoke tomorrow.
One question I do have is about leftovers. Say for a meal tomorrow night, I pull, and serve immediately. Then, after the meal it basically get's put in a pan and into the fridge. This pork hasn't cooled sufficiently, has it? I've done this before and not had any problems eating off of it out of the fridge in the next few days. If it sits out while dinner is served for an hour, then is covered and put in the fridge, is that dangerous?
I'm going to be getting into this situation this weekend. Will be smoking 18lbs of butts tomorrow for dinner next weekend. Planned on smoking, pulling, vacuum sealing, freezing, reheating in boiling water, serving.
My question is about getting the meat cooled properly. I've read the information above and was wondering if after I pulled and vacuum sealed if I could go straight into the freezer of if I needed to still cool it down quickly before going into the freezer? If I need to cool it quickly after vacuum sealing, can I just throw them in a cooler filled with ice water? If so, how long do they need to stay in there before going to the freezer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you for the information. I will employ this technique for after my smoke tomorrow.
One question I do have is about leftovers. Say for a meal tomorrow night, I pull, and serve immediately. Then, after the meal it basically get's put in a pan and into the fridge. This pork hasn't cooled sufficiently, has it? I've done this before and not had any problems eating off of it out of the fridge in the next few days. If it sits out while dinner is served for an hour, then is covered and put in the fridge, is that dangerous?
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Carter:
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
What matters is how long it is left out and how much the temp dropped. If the pan is full, hot, a few people eat, get to talking and it sits out, then is covered and fridged, the relative issue at that moment is how warm the food is when it is covered, and how much is in the pan.
If it is shallow and somewhat warm, the fridge might be fine cooling it is a short enough time, even covered. If not shallow, say a bowl was piled with PP and the few people eating ate off the top, and it sat on the table only an hour. A bowl of quite warm PP, covered, is going to stay quite warm in the fridge - fridges are not designed to cool that much mass very quickly - and therein lies the problem.
As noted above, Staph (and other pathogens) need warm conditions to grow rapidly. Temps of 85-105 are ideal. If growth occurs for long enough, in Staph's case, toxin is produced. This toxin is heat stable and will not be inactivated by reheating. Prevention is the key. When serving, either keep the food hot - >130 in all parts of the food - or limit the time the food is out before it's fridged. An hour or two is usually fine - but then don't simply cover if it is still warm. Transfer to something shallow, cool further - either on the counter or in the fridge, uncovered (providing air circulation underneath helps), till cool, then cover.
No one can say whether food borne illness will definitely occur. But doing things in a way that thwarts the likelihood of contamination or the creation of conditions favorable to growth if contaminated will keep everyone safe.
If it is shallow and somewhat warm, the fridge might be fine cooling it is a short enough time, even covered. If not shallow, say a bowl was piled with PP and the few people eating ate off the top, and it sat on the table only an hour. A bowl of quite warm PP, covered, is going to stay quite warm in the fridge - fridges are not designed to cool that much mass very quickly - and therein lies the problem.
As noted above, Staph (and other pathogens) need warm conditions to grow rapidly. Temps of 85-105 are ideal. If growth occurs for long enough, in Staph's case, toxin is produced. This toxin is heat stable and will not be inactivated by reheating. Prevention is the key. When serving, either keep the food hot - >130 in all parts of the food - or limit the time the food is out before it's fridged. An hour or two is usually fine - but then don't simply cover if it is still warm. Transfer to something shallow, cool further - either on the counter or in the fridge, uncovered (providing air circulation underneath helps), till cool, then cover.
No one can say whether food borne illness will definitely occur. But doing things in a way that thwarts the likelihood of contamination or the creation of conditions favorable to growth if contaminated will keep everyone safe.
Kevin,
Very interesting reading. I have read this and many other of your linked posts. Somehow I always seem to mess things up then get worried about food borne illness.
I did a smoke of a Boston butt and a pork shoulder. I pulled the pork shoulder immediately and ate it right a way. I foiled the butt and then ended up putting it right into the fridge, foiled. I don't even remember how long it was before it went into the fridge, but it wasn't long at all. It stayed there as I didn't get the chance to do anything with it for several days (over 4 days) then pulled it cold and put it in small vac sealed portions in the freezer. Based on what you are saying here, I should throw it out and not eat it. Right? Maybe if I keep reading your posts I will eventually figure it all out. Thing is, I don't think I've ever made myself sick, but maybe I've just been lucky? Anyway I do appreciate all of your information.
Very interesting reading. I have read this and many other of your linked posts. Somehow I always seem to mess things up then get worried about food borne illness.
I did a smoke of a Boston butt and a pork shoulder. I pulled the pork shoulder immediately and ate it right a way. I foiled the butt and then ended up putting it right into the fridge, foiled. I don't even remember how long it was before it went into the fridge, but it wasn't long at all. It stayed there as I didn't get the chance to do anything with it for several days (over 4 days) then pulled it cold and put it in small vac sealed portions in the freezer. Based on what you are saying here, I should throw it out and not eat it. Right? Maybe if I keep reading your posts I will eventually figure it all out. Thing is, I don't think I've ever made myself sick, but maybe I've just been lucky? Anyway I do appreciate all of your information.