HM 4.2.4 schematic image missing from wiki/picassa


 
B

Bill Herbert

TVWBB Member
Hey all, wanting to debug my solders and I've found that the hi-rez image for the 4.2.4 board is missing from this link: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dWWu3FAzsexs98s1SZpdxNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite
Its the first image on the troubleshooting page here: https://github.com/CapnBry/HeaterMeter/wiki/Basic-Troubleshooting - was hoping to get a large representation to make things easier when I start probing.

The photos are also missing from this link:
https://picasaweb.google.com/capnbry/HeaterMeter


Hope Bryan see's this message.

When I plug in my fan/damper, my rasPi reboots and the fan stays on. No idea really where to start accept to verify all grounds and voltages from above image.

Thank you all - and big thanks to CapnBry!
 
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The images are missing when I try to click them too. I have a copy of that one I can email to you if you like...

As for the problem with your HM, first thing I would check is your wiring for the blower. (with power disconnected) check continuity from the blower red wire to the BLOW pin and black wire to GND on the HM CAT5 connector. I've seen people get the blower on the wrong wire before...

After that you want to check for proper polarity on diodes, electrolytic capacitors and transistors and inspect for solder bridges. If you post some closeup pics of the top and bottom of your board perhaps someone could point out an issue for you.
 
Hey Ralph, thanks for the quick reply. I was going over my board with the multimeter and I found really high voltage coming off of one of the ATMEGA pins. The rightmost row, fourth pin from the top. Right next to where the 16MHZ resonator is located. Schematic says this should be a bouncing 3.3volt. Im getting over 100VDC at this pin. I don't understand how that could be with a 12V power supply. Granted, my meter was 19.95 off of amazon. And most of all the other pins I've tested seem to jive with what the schematic says they should be. But I'm feeling something is definitely wrong with this pin. This test was done with the pi plugged in and powered up via 12V power supply. I was grounding off the power barrel solder joint. Any thoughts?

Here's the status of my build of which I left out in earlier post:

HeaterMeter 4.2.4
RasPi model B
NO thermocouple

I thought my HM was good to go, have it loaded with latest linkmeter build, it boots, plays nice with the network, displays probe data.
It was only when I was attempting to use it with Fan & servo that things went bad. Also, I get a 4-5 degree discrepancy from my Thermoworks 1003X-AP pit probe. However, my Redi-Check probes report correctly in all probe jacks, including pit, when dunked in boiling water.

Heres some pics of my soldering job, I'm terrible at it.

i2s9qmu.jpg


iMCULCC.jpg
 
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First of all, there is no way you're getting 100VDC anywhere, something is wrong with your reading or meter there. That pin (pin 18) is one of the pins used to communicate with the rPi, should be bouncing between 0-3.3v but most likely you wont see that bounce on your meter (I've seen people get hung up looking for this bounce they will never see). One thing for sure, you do not have 100VDC there!

I agree with Dave, you should clean up the solder on the CAT5 jack for sure, it looks a mess. What I would suggest you do is take a soft bristle brush and scrub the (entire) board with some isopropyl alcohol, which will remove excess flux and may remove some stray solder balls etc. Then I would melt the solder on each pin of the CAT5 jack, when you do this the solder should tend to pull in around the pin where it belongs. There is also one pin over in the probe area on a .1uf filter cap that looks like it's not soldered.

After you have cleaned up the solder on the CAT5 jack, and determined that your blower wires are connected to the proper pins, I would go to the HM config and set the blower for PULSE mode and see if it acts any different. Pulse mode does not use the feedback circuit while Voltage mode does. This may give you a clue where your problem is.

While in pulse mode you want to look at the top pin on the BS170 that is directly above the MOSFET that drives the blower (and verify that you actually have a BS170 installed there). That top pin is where the control voltage from the ATMega comes to the blower driver. I posted the following info recently to help someone else diagnose their blower issues, take some voltage measurements on your board at 0% and 100% and post back what you are seeing...

Looking at the solder side of the board with the power connector on the left...

When the HM output is at 0%: (measured from ground)
The top pin of Q1 should show 0VDC and the right pin should show 12VDC (the top pin of Q1 comes from pin 5 of the ATMega, the trace travels under the button so there is a possible source of short to 3.3v there, the right pin connects to Q3 to control it, the left pin should be ground)
(Q1 left to right, Gnd, 0V, 12V)
The left pin of Q3 should show 12VDC and the center pin should show 0VDC (the left pin of Q3 connects to the right pin of Q1, the center pin of Q3 is the output to drive the blower, the right pin of Q3 is the 12V supply)
(Q3 left to right, 12V 0V 12V)
So, when the HM is at 0% Q1 gets zero volts from the ATMega which makes it put out 12VDC, the 12VDC applied to Q3 makes it put out 0V, blower is off...


When the HM output is at 100%:
The top pin of Q1 should show 3.3VDC (VCC) and the right pin should show 0VDC
(Q1 left to right, Gnd, 3.3V, 0V)
The left pin of Q3 should show 0VDC and the center pin should show 12VDC
(Q3 left to right, 0V, 12V, 12V)
So, when the HM is at 100% Q1 gets 3.3v from the ATMega which makes it put out 0VDC, 0VDC applied to Q3 makes it put out 12VDC, blower is on...

Reporting back what the voltages are on the BS170 and FQU mosfets when the HM is at 0% and 100% will help diagnose what is going on here...
 
PS

Looking at your pic again there is something showing between the left pin of Q1 (the BS170 right above the big blower driver transistor). It's hard to tell with reflection on pics if these things are solder bridges or just flux or some other debris, but that pin should be ground, not connected to that 12V trace that runs below it.

At this point I am sure you are getting the idea that you need to be looking at your CAT5 jack and these two transistors (Q1 and Q3), these are the parts that are in charge of controlling the blower....

You also have some components on the board that still have rather long legs. It is a bad idea to leave legs long as they can easily get bent over and short something out, specially when you have to handle the board to do troubleshooting like this. I would trim things up straight away...
 
Dave Smith said:
Looks like the Cat5 jack has some solder bridges, try reflowing there.
Click to expand...


I will reflow there, it looked allot cleaner before I started probing for shorts there, however. The majority of what your seeing it from me digging the probes into that solder with a shaky hand.
 
RalphTrimble said:
First of all, there is no way you're getting 100VDC anywhere, something is wrong with your reading or meter there. That pin (pin 18) is one of the pins used to communicate with the rPi, should be bouncing between 0-3.3v but most likely you wont see that bounce on your meter (I've seen people get hung up looking for this bounce they will never see). One thing for sure, you do not have 100VDC there!

I agree with Dave, you should clean up the solder on the CAT5 jack for sure, it looks a mess. What I would suggest you do is take a soft bristle brush and scrub the (entire) board with some isopropyl alcohol, which will remove excess flux and may remove some stray solder balls etc. Then I would melt the solder on each pin of the CAT5 jack, when you do this the solder should tend to pull in around the pin where it belongs. There is also one pin over in the probe area on a .1uf filter cap that looks like it's not soldered.

After you have cleaned up the solder on the CAT5 jack, and determined that your blower wires are connected to the proper pins, I would go to the HM config and set the blower for PULSE mode and see if it acts any different. Pulse mode does not use the feedback circuit while Voltage mode does. This may give you a clue where your problem is.

While in pulse mode you want to look at the top pin on the BS170 that is directly above the MOSFET that drives the blower (and verify that you actually have a BS170 installed there). That top pin is where the control voltage from the ATMega comes to the blower driver. I posted the following info recently to help someone else diagnose their blower issues, take some voltage measurements on your board at 0% and 100% and post back what you are seeing...

Looking at the solder side of the board with the power connector on the left...

When the HM output is at 0%: (measured from ground)
The top pin of Q1 should show 0VDC and the right pin should show 12VDC (the top pin of Q1 comes from pin 5 of the ATMega, the trace travels under the button so there is a possible source of short to 3.3v there, the right pin connects to Q3 to control it, the left pin should be ground)
(Q1 left to right, Gnd, 0V, 12V)
The left pin of Q3 should show 12VDC and the center pin should show 0VDC (the left pin of Q3 connects to the right pin of Q1, the center pin of Q3 is the output to drive the blower, the right pin of Q3 is the 12V supply)
(Q3 left to right, 12V 0V 12V)
So, when the HM is at 0% Q1 gets zero volts from the ATMega which makes it put out 12VDC, the 12VDC applied to Q3 makes it put out 0V, blower is off...


When the HM output is at 100%:
The top pin of Q1 should show 3.3VDC (VCC) and the right pin should show 0VDC
(Q1 left to right, Gnd, 3.3V, 0V)
The left pin of Q3 should show 0VDC and the center pin should show 12VDC
(Q3 left to right, 0V, 12V, 12V)
So, when the HM is at 100% Q1 gets 3.3v from the ATMega which makes it put out 0VDC, 0VDC applied to Q3 makes it put out 12VDC, blower is on...

Reporting back what the voltages are on the BS170 and FQU mosfets when the HM is at 0% and 100% will help diagnose what is going on here...
Click to expand...

Thanks for looking Ralph, I shall endeavor to follow all your tips and instructions. It's funny but i didn't even see that un soldered 1uf filter cap until I took the pictures and blew them up. My eyes are going. I'll try and start testing tonight and report back.

Thanks again!
 
It seems the most common request these days is for help troubleshooting the blower circuit, so I put together this diagram with some useful information...

HM_Blower_Notes.jpg
 
RalphTrimble said:
First of all, there is no way you're getting 100VDC anywhere, something is wrong with your reading or meter there. That pin (pin 18) is one of the pins used to communicate with the rPi, should be bouncing between 0-3.3v but most likely you wont see that bounce on your meter (I've seen people get hung up looking for this bounce they will never see). One thing for sure, you do not have 100VDC there!

I agree with Dave, you should clean up the solder on the CAT5 jack for sure, it looks a mess. What I would suggest you do is take a soft bristle brush and scrub the (entire) board with some isopropyl alcohol, which will remove excess flux and may remove some stray solder balls etc. Then I would melt the solder on each pin of the CAT5 jack, when you do this the solder should tend to pull in around the pin where it belongs. There is also one pin over in the probe area on a .1uf filter cap that looks like it's not soldered.

After you have cleaned up the solder on the CAT5 jack, and determined that your blower wires are connected to the proper pins, I would go to the HM config and set the blower for PULSE mode and see if it acts any different. Pulse mode does not use the feedback circuit while Voltage mode does. This may give you a clue where your problem is.

While in pulse mode you want to look at the top pin on the BS170 that is directly above the MOSFET that drives the blower (and verify that you actually have a BS170 installed there). That top pin is where the control voltage from the ATMega comes to the blower driver. I posted the following info recently to help someone else diagnose their blower issues, take some voltage measurements on your board at 0% and 100% and post back what you are seeing...

Looking at the solder side of the board with the power connector on the left...

When the HM output is at 0%: (measured from ground)
The top pin of Q1 should show 0VDC and the right pin should show 12VDC (the top pin of Q1 comes from pin 5 of the ATMega, the trace travels under the button so there is a possible source of short to 3.3v there, the right pin connects to Q3 to control it, the left pin should be ground)
(Q1 left to right, Gnd, 0V, 12V)
The left pin of Q3 should show 12VDC and the center pin should show 0VDC (the left pin of Q3 connects to the right pin of Q1, the center pin of Q3 is the output to drive the blower, the right pin of Q3 is the 12V supply)
(Q3 left to right, 12V 0V 12V)
So, when the HM is at 0% Q1 gets zero volts from the ATMega which makes it put out 12VDC, the 12VDC applied to Q3 makes it put out 0V, blower is off...


When the HM output is at 100%:
The top pin of Q1 should show 3.3VDC (VCC) and the right pin should show 0VDC
(Q1 left to right, Gnd, 3.3V, 0V)
The left pin of Q3 should show 0VDC and the center pin should show 12VDC
(Q3 left to right, 0V, 12V, 12V)
So, when the HM is at 100% Q1 gets 3.3v from the ATMega which makes it put out 0VDC, 0VDC applied to Q3 makes it put out 12VDC, blower is on...

Reporting back what the voltages are on the BS170 and FQU mosfets when the HM is at 0% and 100% will help diagnose what is going on here...
Click to expand...

Hi Ralph, first i removed and re-soldered the keystone jack on my board, since it seemed like a cause for concern. I only soldered the four connections needed. I verified the BS170 is in Q1. I also soldered the 1uf cap leg that I missed and reflowed the solder around the AT MEGA. Now, onto the test.
Putting my HM fan into pulse mode via web GUI, then using the button and LCD display to put fan into manual mode I proceeded to measure Q1:
Top pin has 3.2v, right pin has 12v.
Q3 left to right:
12v, 1.3v, 12v

Setting min fan output to 100% and turning off Manual Mode from front button I proceeded to test Q1:
left 0v, top 3.3v, right 17v - seriously I don't know how this is happening. I've measured the barrel of my power supply and it only puts out 12v.
Q3 left to right:
17v, 12, 12.

I should also mention, my recent soldering work caused some issue with my rPi WLAN. Its become flaky, sometimes I can ping but get no web pages or ssh connections, sometimes web pages load ok. I ended up moving my wireless dongle to the second usb port on my rPi B board and that seems to help a bit. But Im convinced my recent solders have done something to my rPi. I've tested the web and net access with my HM disconnected as well and get the same results. Connecting to the rPi via ethernet cable works well.

Lastly, thank you for the HM blower schematic. You are a great resource, here!



Should I try removing the button? do you think its shorting against the traces under it?
 
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First of all, I am not sure about your method of changing the blower %.... Rather than changing min or max values in the HM config (if that is what you did), just use the HM button to set the fan in manual mode, then use the HM button to adjust the fan speed to 0% and 100% for these tests. Make sure you leave the fan config at min=0%, max/startup max=100%. You could also use the web GUI to adjust the fan speed by setting 0% and 100% (must use the %), but using the HM button is easiest.

So, not being sure exactly what your HM is telling your blower to do it's hard to come to conclusions about your results posted above. It seems as though the top pin on your Q1 is 3.3v no matter what, which is setting up the blower circuit to run at 100%. So, if your HM config is correct then you do have a problem there, the top pin should go to zero volts when the HM is at 0%, and Q1 should put out 12V on the right pin which should make Q3 put 0V out to the blower.

All data aside, one thing I can suggest is that you look at R14 on both sides of the board, make sure both ends have solder on the traces on the top side of the board. I once had a HM drive me crazy with the blower never turning off, turned out R14 didn't make contact with the trace on the top side of the board no matter how many times I soldered it from the bottom.

That said, if there were truly 17V on the left leg of Q3 that should make it put out 0V and turn off your blower. So I suspect something hokey with that 17V number, or there must be 12V shorted to the blower lead somewhere.
 
Yeah this is a real problem as of like August 11th or 12th, not only did google stop trying to redirect you away from Picasa, it now no longer will even redirect you. Everything just comes up 404. I'm sure it is only a matter of time before all the images themselves stop working. The solution is to use the new photos links (these may not be right, the photos albums are royally F'ed)

HeaterMeter - https://goo.gl/photos/VPKHQrnEkU4hFS8N8
4.2 Assembly - https://goo.gl/photos/KGEHTFFZjqyxaV2P8
4.3 Assembly - https://goo.gl/photos/jB96iHz6Nihtjcvb8

I haven't had a chance to evaluate new image hosting that doesn't suck as much, and going back to edit every image in the wiki is only going to half work (because the thumbnail is hosted still at Picasa). I was hoping that by the time the closed down Picasa, Photos would be at feature parity but I don't think google wants you to share your photos anywhere but as a Google+ post so that's not going to work.
 
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Does github have album support, so someone can browse collections of photos, and then let me link to full-size individual photos in that album via a thumbnail size of my choosing (even if the size is limited to a handful of presets that's fine)? That's what I am looking for... well will be looking for once I turn my attention to this.

Anyone else have any suggestions that meet this criteria?
 
RalphTrimble said:
First of all, I am not sure about your method of changing the blower %.... Rather than changing min or max values in the HM config (if that is what you did), just use the HM button to set the fan in manual mode, then use the HM button to adjust the fan speed to 0% and 100% for these tests. Make sure you leave the fan config at min=0%, max/startup max=100%. You could also use the web GUI to adjust the fan speed by setting 0% and 100% (must use the %), but using the HM button is easiest.

So, not being sure exactly what your HM is telling your blower to do it's hard to come to conclusions about your results posted above. It seems as though the top pin on your Q1 is 3.3v no matter what, which is setting up the blower circuit to run at 100%. So, if your HM config is correct then you do have a problem there, the top pin should go to zero volts when the HM is at 0%, and Q1 should put out 12V on the right pin which should make Q3 put 0V out to the blower.

All data aside, one thing I can suggest is that you look at R14 on both sides of the board, make sure both ends have solder on the traces on the top side of the board. I once had a HM drive me crazy with the blower never turning off, turned out R14 didn't make contact with the trace on the top side of the board no matter how many times I soldered it from the bottom.

That said, if there were truly 17V on the left leg of Q3 that should make it put out 0V and turn off your blower. So I suspect something hokey with that 17V number, or there must be 12V shorted to the blower lead somewhere.
Click to expand...

Ok, sorry to beat a dead horse. As I said in another thread - I've replaced my cheapo DMM with a Fluke 115. I also reflowed the solder to all resistors and other components that have traces along the upper side of the HM board so that I can see solder contact on that side.

putting the HM in VOLTAGE mode via web interface, and then using the HM buttons to toggle the fan to manual @ 0%:
Q1 left pin 0v - ground, top pin .003v, right pin 12.10v
Q3 left pin 12.13v, center pin 1.780v, right pin 12.13v

adjusting fan speed to 100% via HM button:
Q1 left pin 0v - ground, top pin .029v, right pin 10.58v
Q3 left pin 10.60v, center pin 12.03v, right pin 12.09v

After reflowing the solder on said components, my fan does not stay on all the time. It actually seems like its working - somewhat. It ramps up and down now. However there is a short somewhere along the line as the tiniest move reboots my HM. And, as you stated - the numbers are not where they should be on the blower circuit.

Testing the keystone jack leads fan on manual @100%
blow is @ 12v
+5v is at 4.99

Fan on manual @0%
blow is @1.032v (doesn't spin the fan)
+5v is at 4.999v

Thanks for looking, I'm going to go bang my head into the wall for a bit. Then I'll go and reflow the solder on Q1 again and see if I get any different readings.
 
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Did you clean up all those long legs left on components like the ones I see on the LED's? Those are prime spots to have shorts, particularly when handling the board for troubleshooting.
Unfortunately it's been over two weeks since you started this troubleshooting so I don't recall what you have done and what you have not, and I don't have the time to review the entire thread to get up to speed. You could try removing the ATMega and bending Pin5 outward a bit and reinstalling the chip so that pin does not go in the socket, then measure that pin and see if the voltage goes from 0 to 3.3v as it is supposed to. This will let you know if the ATMega is putting out the proper control voltage for the blower to start with. Maybe when I have more time I can review your thread here, but TBHWY it is easier to get help and solve problems if you keep on it and get it done rather than letting weeks pass in the process, that makes it really hard for someone to keep track of your troubleshooting and help you figure out your problem.
 
RalphTrimble said:
Did you clean up all those long legs left on components like the ones I see on the LED's? Those are prime spots to have shorts, particularly when handling the board for troubleshooting.
Unfortunately it's been over two weeks since you started this troubleshooting so I don't recall what you have done and what you have not, and I don't have the time to review the entire thread to get up to speed. You could try removing the ATMega and bending Pin5 outward a bit and reinstalling the chip so that pin does not go in the socket, then measure that pin and see if the voltage goes from 0 to 3.3v as it is supposed to. This will let you know if the ATMega is putting out the proper control voltage for the blower to start with. Maybe when I have more time I can review your thread here, but TBHWY it is easier to get help and solve problems if you keep on it and get it done rather than letting weeks pass in the process, that makes it really hard for someone to keep track of your troubleshooting and help you figure out your problem.
Click to expand...

The pin 5 test on the ATMega sounds like its worth pursuing, which one is it? The leg that goes to the top, center pin of Q1 or the leg that goes down to R19?

Thank you,
Bill
 
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