bbq without heat-sink, no water, etc.


 

Gary H. NJ

TVWBB Platinum Member
Up to now I've been using a full waterpan with my WSM, but Q'ing at <30*F is enough of a heat sink for me. I'd like to use just a foiled pan, no heat sink at all. Will it be hard to maintain steady temps (in winter and otherwise)? I've noticed some folks use foiled bricks, etc.
 
Hi Gary. I very rarely use a heat sink in the pan. Almost all of my cooks are with a dry foiled water pan with no problems at all. In my opinion, why use all that heat to heat up a heat sink, only to save on the heat that you need later on in the cook?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> why use all that heat to heat up a heat sink, only to save on the heat that you need later on in the cook? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A clarification: The purpose of the heat sink is to dampen the swings in temperature, not to shift when heat is applied.

Think of the heat sink as making it more difficult to change the temperature. And that's how to tell if you need more sink... if you are having trouble regulating swings in temperature.

Water works very well as a sink because it has a high capacity to hold heat. It takes a lot of change in heat input or output over time to change the water temperature.

Issues with using water as the heat sink in a WSM include:
1) The temperature of the water is not going to exceed 212 degF. It will get to that point and then just boil at that temperature until it is gone. (except that, technically, stuff that falls into it from the grates during cooking will raise it's boiling point temperature a bit) So if you are trying to do something at high temperature, the water will be a relatively cool spot inside the smoker. It will still minimize swings, but it will also moderate temperature.
2) Cleanup can be a pain.
 
Well said....H2O also steams the meat reducing the drying tendency slightly..... However, cold windy weather mandates omitting H2O entirely IMHO.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ron "Rondo" hanson:
Well said....H2O also steams the meat reducing the drying tendency slightly..... However, cold windy weather mandates omitting H2O entirely IMHO.
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I have to disagree with you. Water does not "steam" the meat. My first couple of cooks were with water then I went with a clay base and now I just use a foiled empty pan. All the meat is juicey. It's the fat in the meat and not overcooking that keeps the meat moist. Think about it, if water moistens the meat then why does meat cooked in the oven come out moist with no water pan?
 
Howdy Dave
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You may have missed two details in my posting... the words drying tendency slightly and IMHO
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To elaborate a little; ... when you cook meat with hot dry air it will trend towards drying slightly in shorter smokes...more in longer smokes, think jerky here... granted, the effect when cooking fat laced pork is minimal!
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However, when you start a cook with 1-3 gals H2O, and the H2O disappears...it has "steamed"away... Meat being cooked with smokey steam is therefore being "steamed", albeit ever so slightly ..... Using your oven example, most folks bake a turkey coveredfor the majority of the roasting time to maintain(not add) moisture, and uncover for some time near the end, releasing skin moisture to facilitate browning...covered meat steams slightly in some of its own moisture, reducing moisture loss (not moistening)thats why browning is inhibited. Anyway, what most say in these posts is justopinion and that's what makes it fun...there is no absolute way of doing things here only techniques to explore and enjoy. The value of water in the pan will continue to be debated ad nausiam
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...I think we can agree...this smoking meat thing is an art not a science!!
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gary H. NJ:
Up to now I've been using a full waterpan with my WSM, but Q'ing at -30*F is enough of a heat sink for me. I'd like to use just a foiled pan, no heat sink at all. Will it be hard to maintain steady temps (in winter and otherwise)? I've noticed some folks use foiled bricks, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gary, I think you might be surprised at how easy it is, and how long your burns can be from burning the charcoal significantly slower. Granted though, you will have to tend vents some, and I would definately have a good wind break up if that's a factor.


Also, I don't know if I'd try doing an overnight cook without having a temp. gauge like the maverick that has a remote receiver and alarm to wake you up.

I'd suggest just trying it with the pan foiled on a shorter cook and see how it goes for you. Try leaving two of the vents alone (probably almost shut if cooking sub 250) and adjusting with just one to make it easier.

I've also set up a little fan and been able to get pretty steady burns by better controlling the air intake if wind was a factor. You just have to play with the placement of it and the vent to get it where you want it.

Also, remember that Kingsford takes longer to stabilize than lump. I don't envy those temps, but unless you're having really bad gusts, you'll be ok. Dave
 
There are certainly times where moisture helps in the oven... which is why some folks bake bread in the oven, but inside a Dutch oven. To keep the humidity levels up. However, moisture levels of dough and how fast it leaves and the humidity around the loaf are all critical parameters when baking. Not so much when BBQing, I'd suspect.

I'm not sure what's actually happening to moisture levels inside a WSM. Heating the outside air reduces the relative humidity. But then the combustion process adds some moisture back. And water in the pan is going to increase relative humidity as well. But how far? The air is wooshing through that little R2D2 dood pretty quickly. Not a lot of time to take on a lot of additional water load.

On top of all of that, how much is a BBQ something-or-other impacted by relative humidity? The meat temperature is greater than 212, so there is certainly no significant condensation of water on the surface. But I could see where higher moisture levels inside the cooker could slow how quickly water is leaving the meat. The more humid it is inside, the less room there is in the air to take any water coming from the meat. And all that said, how much of the weight loss in cooking is actually water loss versus fat and collagen rendering?

Without data we are, hmmmm? So ignorant we must remain. Yes.
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Hi Gary, My last two pork butt cooks, I didn't use water. I smoked 5 10lbs butts and 2 10lbs butts the second time. All were smoked at 225 for about 15-16 hours using a couple of foil wrapped bricks. They were so juicy! I'm converted. No Water! No Mess!
 
I dont use water,sand or bricks just a foiled covered waterpan. Once you master airflow and starting with the right amount of lit coals in the beginning of the cook is key. I keep a close eye on the unit for about an hour while the temp is coming up and make adjustments to the vents then just check it every now and then.
 
I stopped using water 6+ years ago. I use nothing but the stock WSM water pan covered in foil, about an 1" or 2" off the inside bottom of the pan. Water is used as a heat sink, to help keep the temps low, nothing more. Using water adds nothing to keeping or to help keep the meat moist.
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Ah yes, the fun of BBQing in the cold months. I have switched to no water in the pan to keep the temp up since the cold weather set in. As others have said, the temp of the smoker fluctuates quite a bit, and I find myself checking the smoker every 30 minutes or so. Without the heat sink, it feels like the smoker is on a temperature roller coaster.
 
Hey Gary, Bryan is right. Forget the water. Foil the pan and let 'er rip. Works well in the summer as well as winter.
 
The major reason stated by new WSM converts is "set it and forget it" temperature stability.
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The water pan has a major role in this stability, whether it's filled with sand, bricks, water or tamales... Many champion BBQers like Myron Mixon always use water...many don't. It's a subjective thing. Most of us amateurs who, for whatever reason, like the H2O idea, find ourselves using less of it as it gets cooler outside, only to return to it once again, as the mercury rises.
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Alas,..."one size does not fit all
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...and likely would vary with the seasons if it did
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..at any rate, as Paul said, "Let 'er Rip !"
 
I think you summerized my feelings at this time Rondo. Water in the pan in cold weather is just a waste of fuel. I do like the foiled brick(s) idea. Thanks Tim Q. One question: where do I buy a foiled brick? (just kidding -- thanks to all for their input). Have a Happy 2010.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think we can agree...this smoking meat thing is an art not a science!! Smiler </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry... can't agree. It certainly is science. All the variables can be controlled. Yes, there are a lot of variables, but careful experimentation can lead to some progress in terms of understanding bbq. I've heard guys like Minion say things like "the science doesn't support that" in reference to some bbq technique. So there are cookers out there that are using science to understand the process.

I might be willing to argue that using a full water pan increases drying. When cooking in a closed oven, there is little air flow, and moisture loss by the meat will raise the humidity inside of the oven. When cooking with a full pan, you'll need more air flow to keep your cooking temp up. More air flow means more drying. Ceramic eggs are lauded for their ability to reduce airflow and maintain high internal humidity (without water). The closest we could get to an egg, with a wsm would be to keep it dry and choke it down.

I was just reading about stick burners (which have a lot of flow) and how its recommended to fill them up with meat to keep the internal humidity high. Firing one up to do a single butt or rack of ribs just results in dried out bbq.
 
Nice thread. I switched to the foiled clay saucer method years ago just for the ease of clean up. I detect no difference in moisture levels of the products. However, has anyone ever actually measured the humidity level inside a WSM (or BGE) during a cook with or without water?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sorry... can't agree. It certainly is science. All the variables can be controlled. Yes, there are a lot of variables, but careful experimentation can lead to some progress in terms of understanding bbq. I've heard guys like Minion say things like "the science doesn't support that" in reference to some bbq technique. So there are cookers out there that are using science to understand the process. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true. Jim and I had this very discussion over cocktails a couple or three years ago. Understanding the science can go a long way to helping a cook master the varaibles to achiev e the results s/he is looking for.

I don't use water - even in Florida in the summer - unless I am cooking something that must be cooked at a lower temp - bacon, e.g., or similar cured items that will be smoked to finish.

Steve Cutchen is correct: The 'whooshing' air through the WSM does not increase the water load of the ambient conditions in a way that has much significance. The water pan (with water, or with sand, or with ceramic) can function as a heat sink - but a heat sink is not necessarily needed at all. If you strategize the coal/lit situation accordingly then no heat sink is required - even in summer, even in Florida.
 
I am a new WSM owner but have smoked on my OTG many times. I am still undecided about water in the pan. I did use water in the pan last night with the wind chill at 11F below zero. With temps like that the air is very dry. The vent on the lid of my WSM felt like a steam humidifer. Water was condensing on the inside walls of the middle section and lid and almost raining inside the smoker. My hand would feel wet when put over the lid vent. I am not sure this adds up to more moist food or not but results were great last night. Also I am not using foil on the pan and clean-up is not a problem. Could this be from using cleaner burning lump?
 

 

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