quote:

Originally posted by Bryan S:

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Originally posted by r benash:
Hey Bryan - just on the screen, no stone?

Ray, Just the screen. I have a Fibrament stone but the whole preheat for a hr or more is just a waste IMO. I get fantastic results with just the screen.

Thanks Bryan - very interesting. Been reading up on the topic, and used to always use a stone when I was on this kick years ago. But I never used a screen then, nor was I using the "right" flour as it turns out nor proofing for as long as I should have. Going to give another try.

Bryan, you have encouraged me to do further study...I was up at 5.30 this morning and doing some pizza research. It has lead me to ask two questions.

#1 Do you bench ferment before going in the fridge?

#2 Do you allow the dough to come to room temp or just go from fridge to the oven?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
Bryan, you have encouraged me to do further study...I was up at 5.30 this morning and doing some pizza research. It has lead me to ask two questions.

#1 Do you bench ferment before going in the fridge?

#2 Do you allow the dough to come to room temp or just go from fridge to the oven?

Steve, After the final kneed with the KA mixer I split the dough into 2-20 oz balls and they get a light coat of Olive oil and into the Gladware containers, and staright in the fridge they go. I do not stack them because I want them to cool down fast. I also leave the lid open about a 1/4" for 3-4 hrs to help let the warm air out and reduce condensation buildup in the container. You can also place a paper towel acroos the top of the container when you close the lids tight (not touching the dough) after the 3-4 hrs with the lid ajar and cooling in the fridge. This will collect any moisture that forms on the underside of the lid and keep it from pooling on your dough.
When I worked in a Pizza shop many years ago we used the dough straight from the fridge, so I find that easier to work with. I did try using the dough once after letting it sit out for 2-3 hrs and found it very runny. Yes it's easier to stretch but it's too easy, and hard to control IMO. If you find cold dough not easy to work with then maybe try 45- min to a hr out of the fridge before stretching. I find the 2-3 hrs way too long. Not to mention it rises a great deal which makes it hard to work with also.
If you want to do a 5-7 day dough use the 3/4 tsp of IDY. If you want to go to the 10-14 day route cut the IDY to 1/2 tsp.
Rember cold air falls, so the bottom shelf, very back of fridge for the long ferment dough.

I made 2 batches of dough this past Fri; 1 was consumed that night (hey I couldn't wait!), and the other is in the fridge. Really looking forward to this weekend to try out the cold fermented dough.

Bryan,

Did you ever try making this with cold water, essentially with Reinhart's pain a l'ancienne (sp?) technique? I like the flavor I get from that technique.

That would also take care of the condensation issue as the dough cools off in the frig.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
Bryan,

Did you ever try making this with cold water, essentially with Reinhart's pain a l'ancienne (sp?) technique? I like the flavor I get from that technique.

That would also take care of the condensation issue as the dough cools off in the frig.

David, I did use cold water once or twice but I found no difference. Even with the cold water with all the mixing and such the dough is over 60 degrees when finished. Plus I do the 15-20 min rest then the final knead so... It gets warm. The fridge issue, here's my take on it. Anything that's warmer than the fridge in a bowl closed up tight with a lid is going to build up condensation, unless the warmer air can escape. JMO

What I do with that method, is chill water, sponge, etc before mixing, mix all ingredients except the salt, knead for a minute or so, then stash in the frig for about 30 minutes, then add salt and knead for another minute or so, then back in the frig. Depending on the hydration, then after another 30 minutes in the frig, pull back out and knead for another 30 seconds or so. Then proceed with retardation.

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Originally posted by Paul K: and the other is in the fridge. Really looking forward to this weekend to try out the cold fermented dough.

Paul, Looking forward to your thoughts on the dough as well.

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Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
What I do with that method, is chill water, sponge, etc before mixing, mix all ingredients except the salt, knead for a minute or so, then stash in the frig for about 30 minutes, then add salt and knead for another minute or so, then back in the frig. Depending on the hydration, then after another 30 minutes in the frig, pull back out and knead for another 30 seconds or so. Then proceed with retardation.

David, That's alot of time. If I was up to getting that involved, I would try it, but..... These days things are tough for me, so I try to keep it simple. Believe me It's not by choice, but I have had to redo/rethink almost everyting the past couple of years. I'm sure my method is no where near what Tom's is, but it's the best I can do right now. I would really like it if you could try my pizza dough as written in my first post, give it 8-10 days in the fridge and see what you think. I know it's no Lehman or Reinhart dough, but it's not half bad.

Bryan,

I here you on the simplicity factor. There's a lot to be said for that.

I'll try it as is with the long fermentation.

Quick question on the salt. Is that a fine grain salt or a flaky salt like kosher?

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Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
Bryan,
Quick question on the salt. Is that a fine grain salt or a flaky salt like kosher?

It's more of a fine grain, Sea Salt.

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Paul, Yes it adds a ton of flavor to the dough. When you cold ferment the pizza dough it takes away that floury taste you can get in a normal proof dough.

Bryan, the dough turned out great. I let it proof for 7 days. This was probably the best pizza I've made. Now, what I'm doing, as I pull out cold fermented dough, I make up another batch to have on hand. Thanks for the tip.

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Originally posted by Paul K:

quote:

Paul, Yes it adds a ton of flavor to the dough. When you cold ferment the pizza dough it takes away that floury taste you can get in a normal proof dough.

Bryan, the dough turned out great. I let it proof for 7 days. This was probably the best pizza I've made. Now, what I'm doing, as I pull out cold fermented dough, I make up another batch to have on hand. Thanks for the tip.

Paul, Glad it turned out ok and you liked it. Your method of making one after using up the dough is one I used to use also. I liked having pizza at least once a week so when I used the first dough ball up at day 5,6,7 I'd make up another batch. I make 40 oz at once for 2 dough balls and would always have dough on hand for pies. I haven't made pizza in months, but hope to be able to get back into doing it again soon. Now try a 11 day dough for a pizza and see what you think. That one is my favorite.

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Now try a 11 day dough for a pizza and see what you think. That one is my favorite. Wink

Made a quickie last night with some 11 day old. The dough had the yeasty/fermented odor to it. I think I left it in a day or 2 too long. I made up the pizza anyway and it was good, but not as good as the last one. One of the problems was probably using too much yeast (1 packet) to begin with. I've since read about cutting back for the longer cold ferments. Has anyone had any luck with freezing their dough? I'm thinking if I can't use it by the time I should, then possibly pop it in the freezer to stop the fermentation...?

In the midst of making this dough as I type. I hope to be having the best pizza I've ever made next weekend. Thanks Bryan for posting this recipe/method. Can't wait to try the results.

Could this be used in a pan style pizza?


Rick

Brian,

I made this and it was very good. I'd like to keep making this. Here is my only problem. I like my pizza very thin, so for me this requires four small balls. We only have one frig, and I often have some other bread dough fermenting in the frig. I don't think I can get away with that much frig space devoted to my doughs. I think I could save space by bulk fermenting and then divide and shape when I make it. How important is it to the process that it ferment in individual balls?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Pruitt:
Could this be used in a pan style pizza?
Rick

Yes Rick it can be used for pan pizza with some mods done to it. I need to know the size and style of the pan. I use a round 15" with tapered sides. Meaning the inside of the pan measures 14" at the bottom and tapers out to 15" at the top. For this size and style pan 22 oz of dough is needed.

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Originally posted by David Lohrentz:
Brian,

I made this and it was very good. I'd like to keep making this. Here is my only problem. I like my pizza very thin, so for me this requires four small balls. We only have one frig, and I often have some other bread dough fermenting in the frig. I don't think I can get away with that much frig space devoted to my doughs. I think I could save space by bulk fermenting and then divide and shape when I make it. How important is it to the process that it ferment in individual balls?

David, Glad to hear you liked it. Yes you can leave it as one big ball and divide the day/night before making pizza. Make your 4 balls and let rest overnight to relax the gluten. I've found that the overnight rest is better than divding the same day your using.

Bryan, made your cold ferment dough last night. The only problem I had was mine. I read the amount of flour wrong the first time and had to throw the batch out. Second time came out just right. Taste test this Friday. Can I freeze the second dough ball after say 7 days?

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Originally posted by paul h:
Can I freeze the second dough ball after say 7 days?

I never tried freezing dough, not sure how it will act/turn out?